Here’s what Jesus had to say about his prospective return, from Chapter 24 of the Gospel According to Matthew:
RexDart- this is my understanding from when I was a PreTrib Rapturist (now I’m a LateTrib Rapturist with some sympathies to Preterist PostMillism)-
The only people guaranteed a whuppin’ by Jesus at His Return are those devoted to the Beast System & who have participated in the persecution of Christians & Jews. There may well be many who never joined up with the Beast System or the Christian-Jewish Alliance who will turn to Jesus at His Appearance.
The Millennial Kingdom will be a transitional period in the Heavenization of Earth- death & sorrow & illness will be minimalized in that era but not fully abolished till the Renovation of Creation by God’s Presence (symbolized by Heavenly Fire) which brings in the New Heavens & the New Earth. The New Creation will not be lesser than the prior one, but even greater as it will be able to reflect God’s Love without limit. While I do not know if present mating & breeding behavior will continue, I know that mating & breeding reflects the active Love of the Triune God & therefore will exist in the New Creation in an unimaginably delightful manner.
Whenever the Rapture is, there will be Christians converted after it occurs & also born & converted in the Millennium. PreTribism attributes these postRapture Christians to the evangelization of humanity by the 144000 Messianic Israelites & Jews.
Jesus will return in the year 6029. A day to god is like 1,000 years, and god created the world in six of them. Thus is the time he will allow it to run, and return 6,000 years after his death. The 1,000 years of peace is the day of rest.
tongue firmly in cheeck
If ANY of the NT texts on the parousia is to be taken as a truthful prediction-of-future, even the most liberal interpretation that allows for a covert return of Jesus in some “alternative” form would pretty much be bound to end at a point where eventually he MUST manifest himself in full power and glory and the churchES will have no choice but to take notice. Of course, it also announces the “Fullness of Time”, so it would be kind of moot to consider that some other people would go on living their Christian lives waiting for “the real Jesus”.
Then again, Christianity itself involves retconing (RETroactively CONformING) the prior source texts so as to square them with the conclusion of Jesus-as-Messiah, including “prophesies” that may have NOT applied to the Messiah in the first place. Heck, to this day, the “Left Behind” camp is reinterpreting what the End Times are going to be like after almost 2,000 years of doctrine.
The alternative, of course, is to take it all as a huge allegorical parable, but then we’d have badchad pestering the Christians about it forever. 
jrd
BTW’, toonie, it was NOT a bigoted or anti-LDS or insulting or put-down joke. Honestly. Your mistake. Y’know, this makes twice in my visit to the Board today that I’ve read a self-effacing joke by a Catholic (tomndebb and earlier Guinastasia) be taken to major offense. My guess is there’s some high source of stress out there that I’ve not become aware of…
As a fundamentalist Bible-believing Christian I’m not sure about this rapture thing, I mean, I suppose it could happen but then i
Okay Larry, that made me laugh. You still there?
…
Can I have your car?
Seriously, for the pre-Tribulation rapture folks (vanilla this includes you specifically), I’ve been asking for a scriptural rundown on how this interpretation comes about. I’ve yet to see one. I even read several books in the “Left Behind” series hoping that someone would explain the scriptural foundation for this belief. No dice.
Matthew 24:39-41 :: New International Version (NIV)
Ask and ye shall receive.
Matthew 24:39-41 :: New International Version (NIV)
39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Ask and ye shall receive.
Oops, sorry, You didn’t ask twice.
You know, I’m probably as hard core a Christian as anyone on this board and I genuinely try to live my life in conformance with what I believe Christ’s teachings to be. That said, if I’m to be brutally honest with myself, I honestly don’t know if I would recognize Christ when He returns. I know for a fact there are Christians who are every bit as ardent and devout in their faith as I am in mine, and I know that they hold beliefs which I find repugnant, just as I hold beliefs which they find equally repugnant. I also believe in a God who does not acknowledge impossible and who is no more limited by human imagination than the ocean is limited by a wall a kid playing in the sand builds which means both me and the people I disagree with could be right, although if that’s the case, I’m going to be real interested in the explanation! Christ is quite capable of returning in a form in which despite all my faith, determination, prayer, and discernment, I might well fail to recognize Him. There are also so many ways in which my beliefs could be completely and utterly wrong my mind boggles (admittedly I haven’t had my morning cup of tea, so I’m easily boggled right now).
The thing is, as far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t matter. If I change my behaviour, if I somehow act differently, then I believe I am no better a Christian than the hardest-core Atheist out there. Just as at work I expect myself to do my job whether the boss is standing next to my desk or in an office a hundred miles away, so I believe I should live my life whether Christ will return five minutes from now or 5,000 years from now. I don’t know which one it will be closer to, nor does it matter.
People have been expecting Christ’s return for nearly 2,000 years now. I was a Y2K expert, and I still remember the predictions that that would start the end times; I also read about the very real concerns in 1,000 AD that Christ’s return was imminent. If I recall, the orginal 7th Day Adventists expected Christ to return during their lifetimes and that was about 100 years ago. We could play dueling Bible verses with “not one generation shall pass away” versus “Behold I come like a thief in the night,” but that’s not one of my favorite games. If I say “Christ will return on December 19th, 2006”, how does that make me any different from all the other people throughout the past two millenia who’ve been predicting His return and been wrong? The other people who’ve predicted it have had evidence which they appear to consider every bit as firm as everyone else who’s predicted it.
I do not know. I cannot know, and even if I did, it’s none of my business. If I am incapable of living my life according to what God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit command without the threat of one of them turning up in physical form to open a big can of whomp ass on me;), then I’d better tell my church that they’re going to be short one alto on Sunday because, by my standards which I apply solely to myself, I am no true Christian. Just to make it clear, I apply those standards solely to myself, and it is not for me to impose them on others and, if I do, while that Trinity might not turn up in my living room with that can of whomp ass, I’m pretty sure I’ll be in trouble with them.
Respectfully,
CJ
(Now, if a cup of tea will materialize in my living room, or at least my kitchen . . .)
The main Rapture passage-
I Thessalonians 4:
15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(The Greek root word for “caught up” in V 17 is “hrpazo”, related to the Latin “rapto”, the root for “Rapture”.)
A Bible passage used to place the Rapture before the Tribulation-
II Thessalonians 2:
3. let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
4. he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God.
5. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6. And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.
7. For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way.
8. And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming…
The “restrainer” of VV 6-7 is thought be PreTrib Rapturists to refer to the Church Invisible, the truly devout whose presence keeps AntiChrist at bay.
Familiar with that passage.
And that one.
Yep, knew that too.
Yep, familiar with that passage.
Wow. Okay, that’s the new one. That’s quite a stretch, to the point of pretty much making it up IMO.
Ummm, 'tooniverse? The entire point of the joke was that the LDS were right all along.
Maybe you shouldn’t be so quick to wig out in the future?
Ooooh, I like this bit:
Sounds like we’re supposed to notice. Could this passage be interpretted to allow time between “revealed in heaven” and when he is “glorified in his holy people” ?
He’s not LDS, unless he has converted recently. He was raised Jewish.