And camel spit would have supplemented fire arms!
~VOW
“Ha! Air ball! My shot.”
“What are we up to now?”
“E-C-H-I-N-O-D-E-R. Just the M left.”
“Jeez, who thought up this stupid game?”
Johnny Fontaine wouldn’t have gotten the part in the movie.
I don’t know why cows couldn’t have been used in northern climates. Hundreds of years of selective breeding have turned a once-wild animal into slow, gentle, stupid Holsteins. It would be just as … well, not easy, but logical to turn them into an animal more suited for other purposes.
If you want to look at a horseless society, consider pre-Columbian America; no domesticated animals larger than the llama (which, while reknowned for its title making abilities, is not big enough to be ridden).
My guess is that a totally horseless world would be somewhat less militant. Horses were the foundation for a number of nomadic military cultures. Military cultures based on other animals or on foot movment wouldn’t have been able to duplicate the horse riders’ abilities.
What? I’ve just read Aztec Blood by Gary Jennings (and an un-named author who took over after GJ’s death) and I find it hard to imagine a more militant society than the Aztecs. The Aztecs were not nice people.
Anyway, in this book (which is not nearly as good as the first two in the series - poor old GJ must be gnashing his teeth somewhere) the author claims that because the Aztecs had no draft animals, they did not develop the cart. They knew all about wheels, they made children’s toys with them (shades of the steam engine of Herodotus!), but never developed carts. According to the author anyway, and while the books are very well researched, they are not non-fiction.
Oh, by the way, the Ashantis (prior to being conquered by the British) also had a society I wouldn’t want to visit without having something thermonuclear to hand and they didn’t have horses either.
P.S. The Zulus of the Victorian Era were also no slouches in the militancy department.
P.P.S.: Without horses we might have bred giant bugs to ride on. “Hi-yo, Silverfish! Away!”
Oops! Hero, steam engine of Hero. :wally
Can you say 20 Donkey Team Borax[sup]TM[/sup]?
What? No one’s mentioned that donkeys might have been used for some of the same purposes?
What? No one’s mentioned that donkeys might have been used for some of the same purposes?
So Kat said it twice. Hehehehe…
You fool! You’ll never defeat my legions of Spider-riders, nor can your punty silverfish match my War Beetles in pure combat! And my Mosquito bombers will mock you!
I’m assuming that the OP meant no equines (otherwise we could just substitute zebras or asses or something, given enough time to domesticate them).
The history of Mongolia and surrounding regions would probably have played out quite differently without horses.
Gary Jennings is dead? I didn’t even know he was sick.
Anyhow, I agree the Aztecs, like the Zulus and the Romans were able to form an infantry based military culture. But their cultures were fundamentally different than the horse raider cultures of the Hittites, the Huns, the Mongols, or the Franks. These cultures relied on their equine based mobility to ride into new territories and either conquer the area or escape with the loot before local defenses could be organized. Infantry based armies couldn’t do this; the locals, if nothing else, at least saw them coming. The only non-horse based raider society I can think of off hand was the Vikings, who subsituted long boats for horses.
The Aztecs, Zulus, Romans, etc were militant but they also were derived from a civilized agricultural foundation similar to the people they attacked. The raiders on the other hand, were essentially nomads, who had no use for cities, towns, or farms except as targets.
Wilbur would have been talking to himself.
CarnalK, that llama link is fascinating. I had no idea there were 100 000 llamas in North America! And according to the site, you can even llease a llama! 
How close are moose to caribou and reindeer? Would it be possible to domesticate the moose? Man, the size alone would make them interesting cavalry beasts. And then there’s the ‘off-road’ capability: moose can stride through bush that will stop smaller animals, including horses, cold.
I’ve heard it claimed that cattle have a different backbone structure than horses, which would make them unsuitable as riding animals even if they were bred for it. Is this true?
I am getting the feeling that we are discussing the definition of militancy more than the militancy of different societies.
Anyway, the viking raiders were typically small farmers who’d go viking in the summer in between sowing and harvest. In some cases (especially, for instance, when they were younger sons), they would actually colonize the formerly raided territory, as with the Danelaw in England. Only the rough tough ones would go, though, and do their best to fight against wimps, particularly those more familiar with gold than steel.
Mobility is a strategic advantage in any military situation, even when this mobility is defined simply as having a safe haven for retreat, as was the case the British chevauchees in the 100-Years-War. Naturally, when one possesses a strategic advantage, there will be an attempt to ensure that the war is fought on terms which accentuate that attribute - so those with a mobility advantage will have a natural tendency to become raiders, irrespective of any social difference.
I’m not well up on aboriginal American history, but I have some rememberance that pre-Columbian North America was marked by internecine warfare between the tribes, largely fought as raids rather than set-piece battles. This would be despite the fact that there were no horses and that, in fact, there was very little technological differences between the tribes – although there was one Mexican tribe that had just inched into the bronze age, according to Jennings.
Sorry for all the screw-ups on my posts in this thread! In fact, when I was notified of Lumpy’s post, I was horrified to discover that my post from last night seems to have gone to La-la-land.
We would use elephants instead. Intelligent, large and with a trunk. Faster than horses too. We would have more elephant sporting events. I’ve seen video of elephant soccer (football) and it is a hoot. The elephants kick the ball (huge) and have riders. They seem to understand what is going on.