I’m going to stop posting anything that can be mistaken for informed opinion or advice, because I do not wish to mislead. But I’ve always thought property descriptions were more along the lines of:
The southwest quarter of section 10 or Township 5….
I would be curious what is described/shown in book xx, plat #x.
Never lived in a condo or HoA, tho I’ve read a bit about them. Many condos have deeded parking. The ones I’ve been familiar with were underground spaces in condo buildings. But I see no reason why they could not exist on parking such as the OP’s. Of course, as others suggest, right to parking could be phrased in different manners. I know that I have read of disputes when an owner’s assigned parking is moved to what they consider a less favorable spot.
The answer really has to be buried somewhere in all of the assorted legal documents and applicable law, but it might require someone with experience and expertise - namely, a local lawyer - to really uncover it. Hopefully the HoA will get back to you promptly. At the least, one would wish they would respond - AND give an explanation - whether you find that explanation persuasive or not.
We have a situation near us that never ceases to amuse us. A local park had some restriping of a bike path, b-ball courts, etc. Whoever did the restriping repeated the old stripes, even when the place had changed. For example, one backboard/hoop is long gone, yet where it was, there is a nice new “key” painted. The path’s centerline used to split and rejoin around a bollard - also long gone. The new centerline splits and rejoins…
It doesn’t describe anything, including the house. It says to see the plat, which the drawing suggests I have the space. That’s part of my problem, I’m not sure exactly where to find a description of my full property.
I am used to seeing the older land deeds that do basically spell out meets and bounds, not being bounced around to different books.
I have access to two copies of this document. One from 1969, and one from 2018. Neither spell out parking except park in your space or a guest spot. The only thing it really says is the types of vehicles we can have, and they have to have current registration. The CCR does give the meets and bounds of the entire community.
Again, if I don’t own the spot that’s fine, but it would be nice to get an answer telling me that. It can’t be that difficult. And if it was a mistake just fix it and move on, it’s seven lines that are three feet long, it can’t take that long to redo.
Back when I first became a lawyer, Chicago had an archaic recording system called Torrens. In light of that, I’m extremely hesitant to suggest I have any expertise as to how property is currently described and recorded in various jurisdictions.
Sounds like you are developing a reasonable attitude. Whatever the outcome, this is just something that ought to be capable of being explained. That is one thing I generally appreciated about many aspects of property law. And for which my wife and I have been perceived as “overly lawyerly” by neighbors. In most instances, property lines and title should be capable of being clearly identified, and should give specific persons specific rights and duties. If you clearly own THAT property and I clearly own THIS property, then you generally ought to confine yourself to YOUR property. Even if the encroachement is only a few inches, why not err a few inches on YOUR side?
One of my BILs was an officer or his HoA, and a nephew is president of his. I’ve heard them both comment on what pains in the butts their members might be, but I NEVER heard either of them suggest anything along the lines of simply ignoring a resident’s query. That would possibly piss me off more than the parking space itself. But, of course, you have to decide how much of a stink you want to make - whether it is worth having the board think of you as THAT resident…
This is horrible advice. This would have you in your neighbor’s space according to the new lines and lead to additional problems including a dispute with your neighbor who is an innocent party.
If the OP can enlist the other folks whose lines have moved in this effort that’ll help hugely.
And if an aspect of that group effort includes the affected people agreeing to use the spaces as they used to be identified they can certainly do that. At some risk of parking citations if that’s a thing in their jurisdiction. Whether from the local police or the HOA’s security.
My thoughts …
When I ran my condo complex we had a property management company who handled most of the resident issues, at least at a first level. And they had a specific named employee who was our Property Manager. They had a portfolio of several complexes, but if we had issues, that person was who we called directly. Your PM’s name and phone number should not be a mystery to you. At a minimum a visit to the PM company can get you in touch with this person.
I will suggest that time is somewhat of the essence. Three months from now they’re not going to be able to prevail on the stripe painting company to come out for free. Next week they may well.
My bottom line:
Decide now whether you care or not. If you care, work this *hard* like one professional to another. If you don't, drop it forever. Half-measures minimize success and maximize angst.
Properly formatted and recorded, that map is the legal description. Or at least it could be. Metes and bounds are one way to describe property, but plat maps are another and are legally recognized, at least in California. Your legal description will not include the improvements (buildings), just the real estate.
Others have advised hiring a land surveyor and/or attorney (preferably one that specializes in real estate). Another option that might be helpful is a title company. Title companies are notoriously reticent to render anything that might be considered a legal opinion, but they can tell you what you own.
Former draftsman here. and GIS professional for over 3 decades. The dash dot lines for parking are not described (shown) on the plat that you provided. Easement? What? What does the legend say those line represent?
Different draftsmen use differnt lines to represent differnt things. That’s why there should be a legend to tell you what the lines mean on the plat.
I agree that a certified letter would be best, but I would also suggest asking for more than “come take a look at the lines.” For all you know, some members of the board walked by and said to themselves, “The lines look fine to me.”
When I write a complaint letter or nastygram, I always ask for what I want very specifically. If you want the lines repainted, ask or demand that they be repainted in THIS way by THIS date. Then tell them what will happen if it doesn’t get done. You may state that you will take further steps to correct the situation or you may have some other course of action in mind, including contacting an attorney or authorities to take appropriate action. I’ve been in jobs where I got complaints that were gripes and complaints that asked for remedies. I generally only took action on the ones that asked for actual remedial actions.
I’ve been making maps/charts for over 25 years now, and you’d think there would be a legend, but there’s not. Perhaps it’s a known line and there’s no need to say on the plat what it is. I have to assume that it’s the property line, otherwise it would mean I only own my house. The lines on the back of the house are for fences as well as the property line.
I just called and the management group is closed on Fridays. So I might get a response next week. I hope I do since this is the third time I’ve tried contacting them.
I did it for 36 years. Also drew plats, but mostly maps. Whenever we hired someone, one of the basic questions was “What needs to be on a map” A legend was certainly one of them. Now a plat is not necesarilly a map. But what does the dotted line depict? I suspect an easement? Those need to be depicted as such. The draftsman royally screwed up IMHO.
The dotted lines seem to be the same in front of the home - outlining the front yard and parking space, as in the back yard.
I could imagine that those areas reflect either an easement or some “limited common element” - or similar phrasing. I had a friend who lived in an HoA of single-family homes. The HOA did all of the lawnmowing, landscaping, and IIRC snow removal in the front, and mowed the lawn in back. IIRC, my friend have essentially no ability to plant things out front, but free reign in the designated backyard planting areas.
The owner “owns” those areas, but either others have an easement WRT those areas, or the owner is restricted WRT what they can do in those areas. As opposed to inside their 4 walls, where the owner can do pretty much whatever they want.
Condos and HoAs can have all manner of restrictions WRT an owner’s rights and duties WRT common elements. The answer SHOULD be in the HoA rules.
My dad worked for Rand McNally throughout my childhood. Maps always figured prominently in my life.
Cool. Both my parents were artists. I went into engineering but have a talent for art. So I found cartography.
It’s a combination of engineering and art. You must represent facts, but represent them in a pleasing way. Or at least in a way people are familuar with and understand.
Harry Beck reinvented the London Tube mape to be a schematic. Brilliant really.
Some of my first work was to take paper maps that where not to scale at all, and different scales on the same map and turn them into GIS. That was for telephone systems.
No, I think it definitely says you DO own the parking area.
The plat map shows that Lot number 203 contains an area of 2294 square feet.
Do the math: the main part of the lot has two sides which are 81.52 and 80.24 feet long. The width is 22.6 feet. Very approximately, multiply 81 x 22.6 and you get 1830 square feet. That is about 460 square feet less than the official size of the lot.
The parking area is approx 23.02 x 20 feet, which gives you approx 460 square feet…just what you need.
So if you own Lot 203, you own all 2294 square feet of it, which includes the parking area.
So the only question is whether there exist other legal documents which restrict your right to use those 460 square feet (which you clearly own. )
Restrictions are common, such as easements, but they only affect the use of the land, not the ownership.
If you ask any professional licenced surveyor to stake out the boundaries of lot 203, he will stake the original lines you own as shown in the map, and he will ignore the new white stripes painted by the HOA.
After looking at your map again, I don’t think this is the legal description for your property. At the top of the image, there are several disclaimers, one of which says, “This plan does not provide for the accurate identification of property boundary lines, but such identification may not be required for the transfer of title or securing financing or re-financing”. It’s certainly a map the depicts your property, but that one disclaimer gives me pause.