How Would You Go About Restoring/Increasing Easy Gun Ownership In The U.S.?

Great Debates
1

This thread has turned out to be fairly interesting, with rabid gun-nuts speculating intelligently on plausible scenarios for the gun-control lobby to win (i.e., to radically reduce or eliminate guns in the U.S.). Let’s turn that around: all you wet, wet liberal anti-gun zealots, please speculate on how the gun-rights lobby could radically decriminalize firearms in the U.S., increasing overall ownership and removing many of the laws, barriers, or impediments to owning guns.

In other words, how could those who hold the second amendment in high regard turn the U.S. into a place where their favourite interpretation of it is a fact?

As in the other thread, please state your gun-control position up-front.

2

How could you tell the difference?

3

Come visit New York and you’ll see. The Sullivan Act has been in effect since 1911. That’s why the murder rate in New York City is so low. :rolleyes:

4

Warning:joke follows that I wouldn’t have dared say prior to the recent sniper arrests.

Regarding increasing gun ownership, Maryland, Virginia and Washington, DC gas stations have recently run a promotional campaign. Free rifle rounds with every fillup.

5

As a Texan, you might not notice, but you’d see things like gun counters in Wal-marts and Targets where you could walk up, buy anything you want, and walk out with it. 7-11s would have ammunition racks. There’d be gun advertising on T.V. People could freely carry firearms in the open and concealed. Even that Yugo that keeps parking in your space would have a rifle rack.

In short, imagine that there are basically no restrictions on purchasing, owning, or carrying weapons, and that any attempts to restrict those things are quickly shot down by public outcry or by courts that interpret the second amendment in the same way as the most ardent N.R.A. member. As a matter of practical strategy, how does the gun lobby get the U.S. there?

6

Nice try, december, but the murder rate in NYC really is quite low compared to other large cities.

7

Getting back to the OP:

Step one is to create a voting majority in favor of less gun control. This has been done. Gun control has been shown to be a losing issue for candidates.

Step two is to propose specific state legislation making guns more easily available. I believe this is occurring in a few states.

Step three is to maintain defence against proposals to further restrict gun ownership.

P.S – I am anti-gun control.

8

That’s all rather obvious, December. Care to go into more detail?

9

First, give us some examples of “proposals to further restrict gun ownership”, second, exlpain why this is neccessary if step one has been accomplished.

10

I will not answer the first question, which is apt to lead to a hijack.

On your second, you are right, sqweels. “Step Three” is really something that needs doing all the time.

hansel, I’d like to go into more detail, but I’m no expert.

11

It seems to me that the current round of anti-choice hysteria got started with such shows as Miami Vice, which gave distorted views of guns. We could start by producing television shows that show an accurate view of gun ownership.

Also, the news should stop referring to guns as “assault rifles” and “machine guns”, and make a point to state that a bad guy in their story obtain his gun illegally or that the particular gun he’s been using is illegal.

People who possess or use guns illegally should be prosecuted for it. My impression is that prosecutors see filing gun charges is of little value when the defendant is being charged with murder or robbery. Charge him with illegal possession as well as the greater crime.

Actually televise one of the most popular Olympic sports in the world – the Biathalon. Explain the sport to the viewers. U.S. coverage of this event is dismal.

Issue concealed-carry permits to law-abiding citizens. If a few crooks get popped, that’s their own look-out. (I feel no need, and have no desire to carry a gun; but I’d like to be allowed to do so.)

Get celebraties interested in shooting. Charleton Heston marched in the Civil Rights movement, and he’s a shooter. Just because a person likes guns doesn’t mean that he can’t fight for Liberal causes.

Pour gobs and gobs of money into education. Increase access to higher education for the poor. Educated people are less likely to commit violent crimes.

The government should fund abortions for people who desire them if the people can’t afford to pay for them themselves or if they are non- or under-insured. We should not force women to have children they don’t want. Poor women would more easily get back into the work force. Money that would be spent by the government to help care for the upbringing of poor children could be spent on better education for the children who are wanted. (Of course, the government must not force women to have abortions; nor should it try to coerce them. But make it an option.)

Expose children to guns and gun safety. It seems to me that there were fewer accidents when guns were more readily available.

Many people think “guns are bad”. They think that anyone who touches a gun will automatically become a homicidal maniac, or else will rush out to accidently kill someone or himself. Ignorance breeds contempt.

Identify the problem. This is important, as a problem is seldom solved when people don’t know what it is. The problem is not guns, nor their availability. The problem is that a fraction of a percent of people who have guns misuse them. But why do they misuse them?

  1. They wish to commit a crime.
  2. They have little control of their emotions.
  3. They don’t know any better.
  4. They have mental problems.
  5. They are under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

There are probably other reasons, but these are just off the top of my head. So what do we do about the ones I’ve listed?

  1. They wish to commit a crime.
    Why? Is it because of their economic situation? Is it because of their social situation? Are they just “bad”? If the former two, increasing spending on education will most likely put the person into a better socio-economic position which will lessen the possibility that they will “need” to commit a crime. If the latter one, then they must be prosecuted. Of course, we cannot and should not penalize someone for what they might do or what they have a possibility of doing. The price of freedom is responsibility. Members of society must take responsibility for their actions.

  2. They have little control of their emotions.
    Tough one. A wife beater may have no hint of a criminal record. Someone may be cut off one too many times on the freeway. How do you stop a person from lashing out with a gun if the person is emotionally unstable? I don’t know. Other posters can answer that one. (Although the freeway thing can be made better if more people were allowed to telecommute.)

  3. They don’t know any better.
    Accidents happen when people don’t know what they’re doing, or if they are careless. (NPR mentioned a guy who was recently shot in the ankle by his dog.) Better education. I’d like to see gun safety taught in schools, even if it’s just “Stop! Don’t touch it! Get an adult!”

  4. They have mental problems.
    These people are already prohibited from having guns. Make sure that any mental judgements appear on their background investigations. There are of course privacy issues here. Again, thought needs to be put into a solution.

  5. They are under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
    Again, it’s hard to prosecute someone before they’ve committed a crime. But we do prosecute people who drive drunk.

But the main thing is perception, and the lack of personal responsibility. People think “guns are bad” because that’s what they are told over and over again. People are unwilling to take responsibility for their actions and seek to blame others. This is a societal problem. While people do have the right to seek redress for wrongs done to them, they need to realize that if they are to blame then they must own up to it. For example, litigation practically destroyed the General Aviation industry. A pilot does something stupid and gets killed. His family sues the aircraft manufacturer because they didn’t design the aircraft to fly into a class 5 thunderstorm. The family does not deserve to win such a case, but they do. Responsibility should be stressed. Again, this can be done through our news and entertainment media.

Education, education, education! And entertainment that does not demonize sporting equipment.

This is all just off the top of my head, and a bit stream-of-consciousness. But the point is that the real problems must be identified before any progress can be made.

12

Well, there are precious few “experts” here. This is about speculative strategy, so go ahead.

13

Pretty simple way of removing legislation concerning guns would be to shoot all the pinko-commie-liberals.

BTW, I’m a Canadian who is revolted by the American gun fetish.

14

IMHO…the reason this would be virtually impossible is because it would involve compromise and trust.
I would want one giant big bill to pass in the US Congress. All state laws restricing ownership and sale of firearms would be rendered obsolete, and the new laws would apply equally everywhere.

  1. Affirm that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual’s right to own firearms.

  2. Legalize the private ownership of every type of firearm and ammunition.

  3. Require an extensive background check before a person is allowed to purchase any firearms.  Require the completion of a short firearms safety class.  Issue a national firearms ID card to everyone that completes both of these requirements.

  4. No firearms sales to anyone without an ID card.

  5. All sales and transfers of firearms need to be reported.

  6. All firearms need to be registered.

  7. Offer an objective class and test for a national CCW permit.

  8. Gaurantee against taxing(or paying fees) any registered firearm.

  9. Mandatory additional 10 years in jail for using a firearm during a violent crime.

  10. Mandatory 5 years in jail for possesing a non-registered firearm, or possesion of a firearm by someone without a firearms ID card. (with the exception of people in the presence of a person with a card —like at a range or hunting with a friend)

I know that is pie-in-the-sky type thinking, but that would be my ultimate firearms law.

15

**Let’s turn that around: all you wet, wet liberal anti-gun zealots, please speculate on how the gun-rights lobby could radically decriminalize firearms in the U.S., increasing overall ownership and removing many of the laws, barriers, or impediments to owning guns. **

Fire arms should be issued to everyone that passes their driver’s test. This way, our law enforcement agents would be certain that every single person they stop for traffic violations, would be armed.

Fire arms should be issued to all people that are convicted of felonies. These people hang around dangerous folks so they should have a right to defend themselves.

All home owners should be issued an assault weapon. You never know when you may need to lay down some suppressive fire on the way to check your mail. This cost could be included in closing costs.

BRM should be a necessary requirement for high school graduates. This nation needs to become more militant. Upon successful completion of this course, students should be issued M-16s. After all, militancy is only an attitude without fire power.
:frowning:

16

Confiscation is not a position that I advocate, but to answer the op - the best way would be to reduce crime, especially crime committed with guns.

Less crime committed with guns (especially homicide), less of a percieved need to reduce the wide handgun availability that gun control advocates believe contributes to homicide rates.

17

Increased gun ownership is not a position that I advocate, but to answer the op - the best way would be to reduce crime, especially crime committed with guns.

Less crime committed with guns (especially homicide), less of a percieved need to reduce the wide handgun availability that gun control advocates believe contributes to homicide rates.

18

OWNERSHIP of guns in the U.S. is still relatively easy to accomplish, provided you aren’t a convicted felon and don’t live in New York or D.C…

It’s being allowed to LOAD YOUR GUNS AND CARRY THEM AROUND WITH YOU that has been severely curtailed in the last half-century or so. Have you ever tried to get a concealed-carry permit or a loaded-carry permit in California? Yeesh!

19

So, as a practical political strategy, how would you make this happen?

20

Actually, have you even tried to purchase certain sorts of firearms? I have been trying to buy another SKS for several months, and now that I’ve found someone willing to sell me theirs, I’ve been told I can’t buy it.
I also think it’s interesting to note that the pro-gun bunch politely and with thinking dealt with the other issue, but that the majority of the anti-gun folks seem to be unwilling or incapable of same.

Fascinating.