Okay, so the link says:
I’m good with that.
Okay, so the link says:
I’m good with that.
You know how I mentioned I live by a church? There’s a fire station across the street from said church. No, I’m not kidding.
I will say though that a call to prayer at 6 am is less obtrusive than a cat poking you in the face because she’s hungry and wants you to get up. I’ll also say that I’m fairly tolerant of noise when I sleep, and even if it woke me up, I could easily just go back to sleep. I’ve never had a big problem with noise, unless I’m sick or something.
Me too. But they haven’t done that. The exemption is still only for religious groups; it’s not neutrally worded. I’m not okay with that. I’m not okay with any religious expression in public that I can’t avoid, really. I tolerate it, because I have no choice, but I’m not okay with it. Religion is between you and your god(s). When you swing your bells and they hit my ears at 6 am, I’m not happy. When the city council gives you greater freedoms than it gives non-religious groups, I’m really not happy. If the freedom of expression is important at 6 am, then my freedom of expression should be protected just as much as a church’s.
Or we could all just be quiet. I’d prefer that.
But you can avoid it, same way you avoid any pervasive characteristic of a distinctive ethnic neighborhood that bothers you: don’t live there. Live in a community where the majority wants the standards you do, and let these people do the same.
Well, then, I think they should.
Listen, I’m not saying “ooh, Muslims are so downtrodden, we need to treat them like speshul snowflakes to make up for it.” And I certainly don’t think anyone should be allowed to blare anything at crazy high levels for any reason (unless it is a tsunami warning or something - as you say, public safety) at any time of day or night. I think this situation should be treated like any other.
What I am uncomfortable with in this thread, and I am not singling you out, is the very clear subtext or sometimes explicitly stated assertion that this thing is bad because it has to do with Islam.
Few in this thread have actually lived with the azan outside of a military situation (which comes with its own stresses and I could see how it would be annoying in that context). Those who have seem to think that hearing the azan is just not that big a deal. We hear it, we incorporate into our lives, we get on with things. While there are some heartening indications that a lot of posters get that this is how it works, I am not sure everyone else in the thread is listening (heh) to those of us who say this.
I hardly think you need to defend yourself.
Nor does anybody else in this thread who doesn’t want to hear the call to prayer at 6am, or any other time if day.
Some people might think it is a pleasing sound and something you get used to - well the guy who worships at the House of Harley thinks revving his bike makes a pleasing sound too.
Doesn’t make it true.
Some of us don’t want noise early in the morning, and some of us don’t want to hear prayers first thing in the morning, or at any time of day.
Muslims can practice their religion anyway they want as long as I don’t have to hear it, I don’t have to accept any religion intruding into my space.
It’s not about racism, there is no race in islam. It’s about rude ass behavior.
Not liking something about a certain culture/religion doesn’t make you racist.
Some people bend over so far backwards to be accepting and to prove they aren’t racist that you have to wonder who they are trying to convince.
I knew before I posted in this thread that eventually the racism card was going to be pulled - the only surprise is that it took this long.
It sure doesn’t. Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, etc. - last time I checked those weren’t races. What term are we looking for here? I’m not sure.
Look, I believe that there are posters in this thread who sincerely don’t give a shit that it’s an Islamic call to prayer we’re talking about - they would want to totally silence ANY noise if they could. But if you honestly believe that not single poster in this thread finds the idea of the azan more off-putting that they otherwise would because it’s an Islamic thing, I think your glasses have a stronger rose tint than mine do.
Sorry for the double post - I’m a little slow on the uptake right now, it’s been a long day. But hey - can you quote the post where “the race card” was played? I’m not seeing the term used until you and Why Not brought it up.
Let’s not get caught up in semantics. Can we all agree that “racism” in the context of this thread is the same as “religionism” or better still “otherism”?
That said, call me a rudist…I am totally bigoted against a group of people who are rude at any time of day by purposely blasting across the neighborhood any message that A) I don’t want to hear, B) doesn’t concern me, C) and can be easily avoided by other means (aka phone call or app etc).
Any one ever hear a Christian church ring bells at 6 am? No, because they won’t want to be that inconsiderate.
To me, the entire problem is the early morning thing. I don’t give a crap if the mosque sounds off after 9 am.
I consider a 6 am religious call to prayer a big F U to the entire surrounding community.
I think one solution would be to have all the local churches start ringing their bells at 5:59:59 am. The ensuing racket would hopefully make the majority of the community come to their senses and stop ALL unnecessary noise.
It may be more guess than fact, but “despicable”? Would you like a comprehensive history of the post-Umayyad Middle East?
This interpretation was called “despicable.”
Sure, sure.
And there we have it. Even if you or I might get used to it, some people won’t. They’ll be annoyed, and what’ll they do? Move, probably. And so those who are actively annoyed by it will move, and they’ll carry their irritation with them and teach their biases to their children.
But of course this kind of ethnic movement isn’t “planned.” Sure.
I’m not sure if the church bells (actually fake as far as I know) in my town go all night. Maybe only to 10 p.m. From a mile away, I don’t mind them. But I have been told that the part of town they come from (now full of churches) used to be a Jewish neighborhood. If I were one of those families, within a block of that, when the church went in, I’d feel driven out, and I’d be right. People can be jerks.
Yes, please, I would.
I don’t care if the call to prayer consisted of my favorite songs of all time, I don’t want to hear it.
Gotta hand it to the Muslims for the long game. Spend a few centuries sending a guy to go yell on a tower along with the crowing roosters. Do that in every city, town, and village no matter how remote, across a major chunk of the globe. Wait until loudspeakers and sleeping in are invented…
All of that leading up to the ultimate goal…eventually being able to mildly annoy a small town in the American Midwest.
They are crafty people, with their “culture” and “religion.”
I think they’re people, and people are dicks. Or is general ethnic dickery not a thing if you’re Muslim?
out of time to edit:
I think they’re people, and even people who think they’re decent, kind, and godly can be utter dicks to outgroups. Or is general ethnic dickery not a thing if you’re Muslim? :rolleyes:
Anyway, it doesn’t matter what the intent is. There is going to be a subset of the populace that get sick of it and leave. And not all of them will realize that not being able to stand several minutes a day of warbling in Arabic is really their problem; those guys are going to whinge that they got pushed out, and it’s going to be even more of the phenomenon of exurb/urban animosity that we have so much of in this country, now with Crusader overtones.
I don’t know what to do about it, but it’s already bound to happen.
I can’t decide how I’d like to respond to that. It’s either:
Drily pointing out the absolute irony of that statement and incurring your annoyance.
Agreeing with you.
So how about I do both, and end on the nicer option? We are indeed in agreement here.
even sven, if I’m ever in the DC area (and it some point I probably will be, though it might be a year or two or three from now), can I buy you a drink in honor of that post?
Actually, I lived quite close to a RC church in Mannheim Germany. They rang their bells at that time. Here is a good place to see what other times they rang the things.