HS student thinking about a computer career

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’m a high school senior now, and I’ve been accepted to SF State University, so I’ll be going there next fall (wow). I’m wondering what I should persue. I was thinking of theater, but that would likely lead me to small, infrequent paychecks, and I think I’ll pass on that.
I’ve been using computer since about age 4? 5? on my godfather’s Apple II, Mac IIsi, and Power Mac, and my own Apple II, Mac Classic and the same IIsi. I’ve been wondering what career I should persue. I’d like to keep working with Macs, because I know them very well, and I’m not beyond basic usage with Windoze. I’m thinking maybe software repair, web page design (but I don’t know much about HTML, much less Java…), or maybe persuing a job at Apple or LucasFilm/ILM, both located in teh Bay Area, where I want to stay.
Any suggestions for a bumpkin about to embark to college?

JMcC, San Francisco
http://members.tripod.com/~weirdstuff/index.html
“Hear the voices in my head, I swear to God it sounds like they’re snoring”

2

If you can hack it, think about electrical engineering. In my opinion, that degree carries a lot more weight than a computing science degree. If you want to go on and do research in computing, that’s a different matter. But if you want to get into industry and work, an EE degree combined with a lot of self-taught programming knowledge will carry you a long way.

3

If you’re a creative type with a solid interest in design, I would recommend web design. But it’s the “design” part that’s important; it’s a lot easier to teach a designer HTML than to teach a programmer about aethetics and the principles of design. Don’t go into an art-based job unless you love art! I’m sure there are opportunities for Mac-based programmers, but I think the bulk of it is PC based. I’ve never had any problems switching between the two; Mac lover bitch about PCs, PC lovers bitch about Macs. I’m agnostic about both of 'em; I use PCs but Macs don’t faze me.

A good C++ programmer is guaranteed a good job, but don’t go into something you don’t enjoy. The nice thing about the current computer industry is people care more about what you can do than how many letters after your name. Figure out what you really enjoy and spend your time on with computers, and see if there’s a career in that, rather than just picking a major with good prospects.

“Happiness is nonetheless true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting.”

  • Bertrand Russell
4

A. PUrsue. (I am an anal spelling person.)
B. Like I know squat about computers, but I do know that if you have any sort of computer science/engineering degree, you’ll have no problem finding a job here in SiliValley (okay, I live in Santa Cruz, but all those rich computer people live here and drive up the already crazy rents).
C. Don’t do it unless you’re actually interested! I’m just finishing up my college career, and even though my degree is in a fairly useless area (Anthroplogy) I’m so glad I chose something I’m interested in. Take an intro course in the fall, but take a theater arts course too, and something random! You never know what might interest you, and college is an amazing time to experiment and learn about things that you’ve maybe never even heard of.
D. Go abroad your junior year! Okay, that has nothing to do with this, but no matter what your major, a year abroad is the best experience you can have in college. I’m just trying to pass on my years of collegiate wisdom.

~Kyla
Banana Slug of '00

5

Mac and PC stuff is okay, but seriously consider learning Unix, Perl, and Oracle and/or Sybase. Designing cool web site front ends is fun, but the serious bucks are made by those who connect the glossy web page with the databases backstage which hold all the business information. If you’ve got an artistic bent, you could try for 3-D animation (but be warned – it’s an awfully cutthroat job market, and you have to be REALLY good and have a killer demo reel before you’ll get a foot in the door). If you prefer software development, C/C++ is always good to know. Right now the hot developer jobs are PeopleSoft application developers (or other business process automation software, but you’ll find that this year’s hot job can turn ice cold in a couple years. If you get a good grounding in the fundamentals, though, you’ll be set for whatever comes down the pike later.

The good thing is that you’ll have four years to explore what it is YOU want to do. The key thing to remember is that your career should be something you want to do, not something you just fell into.

Shared pain is lessened; shared joy is increased.

6

Find where you want to live. Find what the hots jobs are there.

7

Well, you ought to have a couple of years to think about it, so don’t try to pick your major first quarter freshman year.

The following is a true statement, but it needs a lot of clarification:

There will always be many computer careers for the foreseeable future.
OK. What does that mean? “Computers” is a really big industry. There are “computer” jobs that could provide a decent (not great) living 30 years ago that virtually do not exist now. A lot of other “computer” careers that provided a decent income 30 years ago are still around–and look nothing like what they did at that time.

Like to build web pages? That’s fun. Any kid with software can do it, so how many people are going to make money at it? Those people who can build a web site that interacts with a business: providing a way for customers to review products and enter orders and check order status; providing a way for investors to get a warm fuzzy feeling about the reality of the company to encourage more investment; providing a way for employess to communicate within the company.
For all these activities, you need to be able to use the web page as a focus point for communications among databases with decision logic to accomplish tasks. Web pages are simply a single piece of a much larger process.

Are you good at graphics and creating games? So are a lot of people. The best of the best make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year–the other 99% of the people make peanuts.

Communications is only going to get bigger. Time spent as a Sysop might give you a feel for the eight or a dozen careers that are going to be related to that aspect of the business.

Operating System design will always provide jobs, but will require a certain mathematical proficiency and expertise.
Language development is basically a specialized form of OS design.

Tech support is never going away. It will only get bigger, diversifying into such jobs as the guy who diagnoses the problems that engineering built into the hardware down to the guy with the screwdriver in his back pocket that hooks the cables up to each new work station. There are dozens of different careers here, already, as each hardware platform needs a different variety of support and each corporation chooses to organize their departments differently to handle their particular mix of hardware and software.

Applications programmers are not going away, either. Even after Baan, SAP, PeopleSoft, Oracle and others finally create the “ultimate” business software, someone will still be needed to install the stuff. Companies that install SAP’s bulletproof software (yeah, right) are going to get tired of having to limit their corporate organization to match the SAP programs and will start demanding changes to the software. Baan, PeopleSoft, and Oracle already require in-house tailoring in order to be useful to the company.
The business applications mentioned, here, represent the great bulk of code that lies behind the web pages mentioned, above.
I would say that if you get interested in business apps, be sure to take some basic accounting courses. (Lots of BusApps developers get by without that knowledge, but if you want to be good at our job, you want to be a step ahead of the user so that you don’t constantly have to tear down your last project because the user asked for the wrong thing and you didn’t catch their error.

Engineering Apps are similar. You need to be able to know the engineering in order to provide a decent product. Actually, most engineers do their own coding; “computer” people tend to be the “software engineers” writing the languages or operating systems that other engineers use as tools.

A career that has been taking off since corporations have begun investing in microprocessors is computer trainer. As each new product is introduced to a company, they bring in experts on that specific software to train the staff in that product. Other companies send their staff out for general training on new word processing, spreadsheet, or communication software. Those jobs are increasing rapidly, but I see a potential for them to drop off in a few years. Currently, companies are willing to train large numbers of people in their 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s to become more effective with new tools. I don’t have any faith that American industry will actually consider training an investable benefit.
Don’t take anything I’ve said as an argument against pursuing your dreams. As I noted, it is a huge field. I am omly suggesting that you look around at what “computers” means and pick something that you would be comfortable with.

Tom~

8

Well, I’m sure a lot of people are going to argue with me, but I personally don’t think it makes any sense at all to get a degree in computers unless you are really into it.

Web page design is not really a high paying job anymore - anyone who can use a word processor can design a web page, and there are way to many kids out there who want to do it. The best money as was mentioned before is in database (but I’d invest in Oracle or SQL Server training, Sybase is on its way out I think).

The reason I say don’t get the degree is because for the most part the learning will not be useful to you, and once you have your first job the degree is irrelevant. So major in something you like. I majored in psychology and currently work for a fortune 100 company, doing SQL server and NT administration and Visual Basic programming. All are skills I learned on the job, bolstered by some reading on my own time.

I got the entry level job because I worked at my college’s campus computer center - do this for six months and you are guaranteed a job in help desk. I was only on help desk for my company for three months before I got hired by a programming manager. Obviously, this all depends a lot on you - what you bring to the table in terms of intelligence and aptitude.

No matter what, if you want a career outside of design (and the caveats of that have been mentioned above) you will have to get yourself well acquainted with the PCs. Outside of publishing and design, I don’t believe Macs are used at all in business - and they are losing market share even in these ‘niche’ markets.

9

As others have said, there are two distinct tiers of web page development. On the one hand, you have guys doing HTML and putting up fairly straightforward sites. These guys are a dime a dozen, and it’s a brutal market to compete in. On the other end, there are the guys who can build large-scale web sites with Oracle or SQL Server back ends, and complete web applications using a whole host of advanced technologies. To do this properly you need a solid grounding in design methodologies, object-oriented principles, etc. Those guys are few and far between, and can command some pretty large salaries. But it’s fairly hard to break in, because you need a solid education AND experience. It’s also hard to learn on your own because the tools you need are very expensive. I have a home network with NT4, SQL Server, and a host of other tools. I’ve probably got $10,000 invested in hardware and software so I can keep up with the technology.

Also, don’t go into it if you don’t love it, because the field is changing so fast that you’ll be studying all the time, long after you’re out of school. I took a year off to play poker, and when I came back I was studying night and day for several months just to catch up on the latest stuff.

10

I agree with all of the above…but I have to desagree a little with Cooper–
A degree is very useful…while having an MCSE, or CNA/E certification is a very big point in your favor, you have to get those certifications. And that means a lot of time/money/effort spent. Companies also want someone with expiriance, all the letters after your name are no good if you’ve never really worked on something. I suggest, that you try and get an intership someplace that will allow you to get real world knowledge of what you’ll be doing.

When I interviewed candidates for an intership during the summer in my IS dept., one of the questions I asked was what they thought a sys. admin did every day. Believe me, it’s nothing like what you think.

And if for some reason, you put off getting certified, and you lose your job, you find yourself in a position of not having a degree (in anything) and not being certified…makes it difficult to get interviewed. If they have 50 resume’s to sort through, and you don’t have a B.S. or MCSE or something of that nature, you can have all the expiriance in the world and not even make the interview…Good Luck.

11

I have remembered an area where Mac still has a significant toe-hold. You will have to talk to people in the field to see whether that will increase or fade away in the future.

Apple® got into schools in a big way as a way to promote their product on impressionable minds. (Basically a good strategy, although they fell short in some of the follow-through.) As a result, quite a few applications that are related to school situations are, indeed, Mac-based. This includes a substantial amount of science reporting in areas related to ecology, biology, land-use mapping, and similar fields. There are two catches, here: I do not know whether those applications are going to remain Mac for much longer with the pressures of PC, UNIX, Linux, and other non-proprietary systems looking for market share; those fields are using Macs as one tool among many, therefore, they are not hiring Mac “programmers.” Instead, Mac knowledge would just be a complement to your real skills in biology, statistics, higher math, etc.

(Just something to consider.)

Tom~

12

Atrael - I’ve known a number of very successful people without ‘relevant’ degrees or certifications. The sad fact is, that technology moves to fast for a four year university to keep up with. While your basic programming may not change to much (if you learn C++ in college, you will be able to learn anything else quickly in the job) the most in demand skills are database and ecommerce skill sets, which if even taught in college are sadly out dated.

Also, the certifcation industry is basically a joke. Anyone can get certified and know nothing about the product. They are vastly overrated in terms of income increases as well - the typical MCSE only makes $2000 a year more than his non-certified counter-part. That is not to say you shouldn’t do it - a $600-700 investment that pays off $2000 a year (max of 4 years) is pretty decent. I’ve done it - even though its not terribly relevant to my job it has maybe helped my salary a little bit.

By far the most important thing when you come to a job interview is experience. Now, the HR idiots might keep you out of some interviews if your resume does not have the letters strung together in a row - but I for oen would not want to work for that company anyway (and I have the letters). Most companies are not like this anyway, in my experience.

13

jjtm,

I’ll second what tomndebb said. Saying that you want a career in computers and software can be just another way of saying that you want a career in information, it’s a bit too wide of a statement to decide on one career path.

That said, may I suggest is that you try using the career software at your school or at your future college or a local community college? As another wild idea, you might also try thinking about the types of work that you like and the stresses that you like, or at least hate the least. As an economics instructor of mine once pointed out, businesses pay more for work that they can’t get done by anyone else.

Regardless of what you do, I’d try to get in a few business classes and try to work in a few drama classes. This will be hard to do if you go for an engineering degree.

I can’t think of a better place than here to ask about your career options. There are people from almost every aspect of all the computer industries here; someone should be able to answer questions about whatever job you like. Why don’t you post a follow-up and tell us what you think of what has been said so far.

14

One more comment on the MCSE - there have been some wildly inflated salary surveys which got a lot of publicity and which indicated that MCSE’s could make giant bucks. As a result, the market has been flooded with them, and specialty schools have popped up to cram people through the program. As a result, an MCSE is worth almost nothing.

I just went through the whole job re-entry thing after taking a year off, and I talked to some professional recruiters about the industry. I asked them if they thought it would help me if I got an MCSE. They universally responded, “Don’t waste your time.” One of them actually told me that it would hurt to have it because of the negative connotation the MCSE has among some technical managers. This was verified when I interviewed for a position with one company and the guy said, “Ah, it’s nice to see someone without a damned MCSE. I wipe my ass with those things.” Direct quote.

15

Cowboy Greg’s got the right ticket. Oracle is where it’s at if you want a solid career. It isn’t sexy like web development but has much better potential. Working on PC or Mac and end user stuff is a stepping stone at best and a dead end at worst.

16

Any online courses that I could benefit from. I plan to re-enter the field. :wink:

“What’s right is only half of what’s wrong
and I want a short-haired girl
Who sometimes wears it twice as long”
George Harrison - Old Brown Shoe

17

MCSEs are for people like me that were too lazy to go to college, but still wanted a chance to hold a real job. True, anyone in the computer field knows that it stands for “Must Consult Someone Experienced”, but it still impresses the average HR goon, or manager type.

But, college is of better use… more choice as to what direction to go. Really, it’s a matter of finding out what you enjoy and getting good at it. The computer industry isn’t going anywhere. There are aspects that will fade, but little will become irrelevant. Databases are a safe bet. If for some sick reason you enjoy them, you’re set for life. I can’t stand them, and have to look at other arenas.

There is a shortage of people who can do 3D modeling with any degree of skill. I think it’s because of the dual need for creativity and logic. Tech support is a stable field, but it pays bupkes… I’d stay away as a long term plan. Computer gaming is becoming more accessable… there are many more positions needed to make a good game, and while not everyone is going to make enough to give away Ferarris, there are decent bucks involved for most. I don’t know what is going to happen to programming long term… I envision visual C++ 2010 looking a lot like photoshop.

The best thing about the computer industry is that it doesn’t matter what degree you get. Anything you learn is useless in 5 years. So find something you like, have fun, and don’t worry about it. You can always learn something different later.

http://www.madpoet.com
Clerks - Just because they serve you doesn’t mean they like you.