Humor and Mortally wounding words.

Great Debates
21

::raises hand:: I laughed at the OP. :slight_smile:

Then again, I’m 18 years old, so I fit the target audience. I’ve also made jokes about school shootings, suicide, and 9/11 (please don’t kill me.)

I’ve always found dark humor funny, even if the punchline relies on nothing but the fact that it’s dark or disgusting. Maybe I’m just immature. But I do think it helps to laugh at things that are normally hard to laugh at, to put things into perspective. Or something. I’m going to use the word “catharsis” to describe why I think the joke is funny, because it was one of my vocab words in English class last year and this is one of the few chances I get to use it. :smiley:

22

I just think it’s a matter of not being pissed if your joke gets thrown back at you. If you get all pissed because no one laughs at your dead baby jokes or dead messiah jokes, maybe you should have polled the audience before sharing.

i have bizarre and disgusting things I can discuss with one friend group that I wouldn’t dare tell to another. Jokes i tell my husband I wouldn’t tell my mom.

Just like I can’t tell you what ISN’T funny, you are not allowed to demand what is.

23

I must have missed the clever aspect. The punchline doesn’t make sense, since the answer isn’t “crib death”, but “a dead baby”.

Whenever there’s a major tragedy, apparently idiots immediately adapt a bunch of lame jokes to the particular circumstance, and begin e-mailing them around. It’s not new; this was going on in the 1980’s, via fax. I remember that happening in 1986 after the Challenger disaster. 9/11 was a great enough tragedy to give pause to even the densest jackass – but only for a little while.

I have two problems with this. First, the jokes generally are not funny; like the joke in the OP, they often use a structure that was current in humor several decades earlier. So, they’re relying on alleged shock value rather than intrinsic comedic value. They might qualify as black humor, but in a lame way.

Second, I think the purveyors of such shit think of it as “gallows humor,” a form of humor with a long and honorable history. But it isn’t; gallows humor is when you joke about your own misfortune; the kind of “jokes” that idiots send me following a tragedy invariably boil down to mocking dead strangers.

24

“But, enough about me… what about this Monty Python crowd? Well, some people like 'em, I guess.”

– Parrot Sketch Not Included

One of the most liberating things about being human is there is no outside authority that imposes on humour. I like it that way. Let’s keep it like that.

25

I’ve been racking my brain trying to think of humor that hasn’t been used for the last couple decades. Something that is EXCLUSIVELY from this decade. I’ve got nothing. Maybe you can give an example of non-derivative humor?

26

I don’t have a line that I can think of because any such line would mean that I would have to dogmatically preclude certain things as funny. Sat on Cookie has just demonstrated that this is not feasable. Normally I won’t crack wise with an unknown audience just because nothing annoys me more than a blank stare and a hostile return–Yep, my universe, it’s all about me.

I’ve gotten laughs at funerals, from the grieving family and at the decedent’s expense. And the laughter was healthy and good. It’s a lot about knowing your audience, but also as much about your audience knowing you; that you’re not a threat, that you mean no harm, that you only want memories to be stained with happiness as opposed to stewed in misery.

The intent of the joker is what’s important, especially when social standards are being challenged. The comedy from the SNL skit derives its power from the nervous laughter elicited by slapping taboo in the face–neither actor was being “funny.” If I thought P_T_ believed crib death was funny, I’d take issue, sure. But the simple fact that the joke has been told–obviously as a joke–suggests to me that the opposite is true. While I must respect Baldwin’s assertion that the joke is not funny, this same assertion makes me wonder if Baldwin is insensitive to the subtleties of human communication–that humans can use extreme understatement/disrespect/nonchalance to describe that which defies a superlative of the apropriate compliment.

27

Reminds me of a T-shirt I owned when I was younger depicting “Adolf Hitler, European Tour 1939-1945.” The first “concert date” was in Poland, the last was in the Berlin bunker where he shot himself, and the “dates” for England and Russia were both marked “canceled.” I thought it was clever, but a Jewish counselor at this summer camp I was at didn’t take too kindly to it.

28

I remember seeing that shirt around a few times. I found it funny. Not laugh out loud funny, but very clever. It made me smile. I’m Jewish. ;j

29

Oooh! Ooh! Mr. Kotter!

[spoiler]First, it’s Radcliffe*, not Harvard. Second, we’re women, not girls.

*Hmmm…perhaps this part is outdated. But that’s how I remember the joke.[/spoiler]

30

I agree that it’s entirely a matter of audience. I found the OP’s joke funny (at least, I did the first time I heard it) because I’ve never had any direct experience with losing a child. I might repeat it to most of my friends… except for my one friend who’s daughter was stillborn. Mostly, for the simple reason that he wouldn’t find it funny, so what would be the point of telling him that joke?

I would be very, very careful about making a joke like that here on the boards, or anywhere where I know that strangers are going to read it, because I don’t know how many of the people who are going to see it will have had experiences similar to my friends, and not appreciate it. There’s a time and a place for that sort of humor, and that’s when your with good friends who know you and know what sort of beliefs and moral values you have.

Here’s another good example: I was sitting around last night with a friend of mine who’s Jewish, talking about Hitler. He had this idea (I don’t know if it’s at all accurate) that he’d taken the Sieg Heil salute from a particular Catholic ritual, and said something like, “It’s just another perfectly innocent thing that bastard stole and perverted to evil.” And I shot back, “Yeah, just like the Swastika, or hating Jews.” And we both laughed for a good five minutes, because we’ve known each other for ten years, and he knows I don’t have an anti-Semetic bone in my body. And also, we were drunk. Now, I’d never in a million years tell a joke like that to a group of people who didn’t know me very well (Of course, here I am telling it to you people…) because they might assume, not unfairly, that I wasn’t entirely joking.

What I think it boils down to is that the joke in the OP could be offensive if told in a public forum like the boards because it presumes a degree of intimacy that does not exsist. Obviously, who ever is telling it isn’t in favor of crib death, so that’s not where the offence comes from. It comes from the presumption that the audience wants to hear dead baby jokes, and not all audiences are interested in that.

And just in case, if any are offended by my above Hitler joke, I apologize in advance. It was funny in the context of a couple of high school pals shooting the shit late at night, and I would not normally tell it to strangers except for its value as an illustrative example.

31

The concept was reworked a little over a decade ago, with more palatable results, for the “Saddam Hussein Middle Eastern Tour” – where, of course, EVERY date was canceled.

32

There’s a time and place for most humor. You wouldn’t tell the OP’s joke at the PTA. You might tell it at a bar with your buddies. I was in my cousin’s wedding party. The sister of his wife-to-be was a bridesmaid, and at the dinner she and I traded dead baby jokes (not the OP, though - this is the first time I’ve heard it).

I think it’s a great skit, too. The last time the early SNL was in reruns (I forget which channel), that skit showed up in regular rotation. I’d be surprised if it did not get rerun. I’ve never done a survey on this, so this is a complete guess (subject to correction) - most blacks actually like that skit because of the way it ends, with Chase backing down completely and abjectly and Pryor triumphant and in control. In fact, I’d bet that’s how Pryor and the writers framed it.

33

Not outdated at all. Radcliffe is very much alive and kicking.

But the punchline is “It’s Radcliffe, it’s women, and IT’S NOT FUNNY.”

Topical, at least.

34

P_T_, since you’re obviously talking about another thread, it would be polite to link to it.

My only points in that thread were about the Viagra jokes, and why I find them unfunny. They pretty much match jarbabyj’s logic.

35

I’m moving this to Great Debates, as it’s not really a rant, but a discussion about humor.

Lynn
For the Straight Dope

36

Even if you had meant it, it wouldn’t make you anti-semitic. The definition of an anti-semite is: “Someone who hates Jews more than necessary” ;j

In the same vein, a favorite of mine (in a dark, cynical way) is the Israeli True Story / Urban Legend (?) about the left-winger who, a few days after Rabin was murdered, was at the bank. The teller asked, in a general way, “who’s next?” and the guy piped up and said “Peres!”
So I agree - black humor (of which this is a prime example) is all about alleviating your own darkest fears and misgivings…

(The Urban Legend version goes on to say that the police were called and the guy was arrested… proving [or at least making] the point that someone will always be offended, too)

Dani

37

That’s my criterion for whether a joke is “good”. Not necessarily “funny” to just anyone, but potentially funny to the right audience.

Recently, there was a Pit thread in which the Lindy Chamberlain case was referenced. I read it too late to comment, but what I thought at the time was that to me, dingo/baby jokes have never been funny. Not because of the subject matter, but because I’ve never known of anyone making a clever one. No plays on words; no misdirecting setups that cause the punchline to take the listener by surprise; in fact, no punchlines at all.

Joke I heard shortly after Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested:

“He’s out on bail, but it cost him an arm and a leg.”.

Some people were, for whatever reason, unable to find any humor in the Dahmer case. Doesn’t mean they lacked a sense of humor, but it doesn’t mean that joke is “bad”, meaning no humor value. At the time, I found that joke to be clever, although it didn’t make me LOL; I was still trying to wrap my mind around the idea of his crime(s). But I did appreciate the play on words. And more than ten years on, I now get a chuckle out of typing it. (Don’t flame me, please!)

Far Side cartoon published shortly after A Cry in the Dark was released in the US (I see no need for a spoiler):

Picture: Side view of a wooden fence. One one side, a daycare center with children in cribs (outside?). On the other, a dingo farm, with dingoes standing on hind legs to peer over the fence. Caption: “Trouble brewing.”

Well, ha ha. Not offensive to me, just pointless. And typical of jokes “inspired” by the Chamberlain case: juxtapose a dingo and a baby, or several of each, and leave it at that. If I were a mother, I’d probably never find any such jokes funny, but I don’t think I’d be stirred up enough to be offended either.

And Baldwin, I do think the joke in the OP is clever. “A dead baby” isn’t a punchline. You don’t know how the baby died, and there’s no implication that it’s the woman’s own baby. “Crib death” describes a specific situation, and ties in with the “at night” clause in the setup. But hey, if you don’t find it funny, you just don’t.

38

I’m sorry but I did find that funny.

My own dingo joke doesn’t have anything to do with babies at all. Instead it’s mocking those liberal theologians (like Jesus Seminar-ians) who seem to delight in making the provocative assertion that JC’s body was probably just thrown in the dump & eaten by dogs…“Essentially, the ‘a dingo ate my Savior’ theory.”

Yeah, I’m sure Funk wouldn’t laugh either but it amuses me. S

I wrote a joke that offended someone so bad he left a message board ranting against me (he was a photographic artist tho I did not know it at the time- if I’d known, I don’t know if I’d have told it, but I probably would have)

How many modern artists does it take to change a light bulb?

Three- one to stick it in his butt, one to photograph it & one to apply for the federal grant.

39

That’s always been one of my favorite Far Side cartoons, and until now, I never made the connection to the Chamberlin case.

40

Gah, your punchline has much more flair than the one I knew. :smack:
Not to hijack away from your topical joke, but in the interest of fighting (my) ignorance…

I didn’t know Radcliffe College was still around as a dual enrollment thing. The last I heard about it was probably in the Boston Globe:

(from here )

That’s what I get for reading the newspaper!