Hundreds of thousands protesting bigt government in DC and nationwide

[Patty_O_Furniture]

@Evil_One

I’ve said for years that the politics of the left would have be tried and demonstrated to fail before people would learn.

What failures have been demonstrated?

[Sam_Stone]

@SenorBeef

Maybe a tiny fraction of them were actually irate about that too, but to me this doesn’t look like a legitimate anti-government protest, but a “oh shit y’all, there’s a nigger in the white house!” protest.

I think that’s unfair. Accusations of that kind of racism shouldn’t be tossed around lightly.

I do think there’s a tendency to ignore the faults of your own party. For example, where are the marches on Washington against the Afghanistan war? They vanished when a Democrat became president.

And while you’re right that Bush presided over a huge expansion of government size, Obama has been presiding over an expansion of government control, and that’s a whole 'nuther thing. Had he just passed expansions of welfare coverage or a big payout to the Department of Education, I doubt if there would have been this kind of reaction. In fact, there wasn’t this kind of reaction to the stimulus package, which was a huge expansion of government spending.

The difference this time is that the combination of the auto bailouts, talk about limiting CEO pay, and this move into healthcare really has people feeling that the government is becoming much more intrusive in their lives, and I think that’s scaring people. Money’s only one part of it. Obama hasn’t helped with his divisive rhetoric, comments about how it was time for the people who caused the problem to shut up and get out of the way, etc.

I’m sure there are racists in the crowd, just as there were anti-semites on display in the anti-war protests. I do not believe this was even marginally driven by such racism, just as I don’t think the anti-war protests were driven by anti-semitism. If Joe Biden were president and were doing the same things, I think you’d see a similar reaction.

[SenorBeef]

@Evil_One

I’ve said about four times now that the people are protesting government spending from both parties.

Yes, right. This is an equal opportunity anti-government protest, except that nothing like it ever happened under the Republican congress that was running up deficits like crazy and enacting all sorts of expansiosn to government power. Even now, people quote how Obama is massively increasing the deficit when the reality is that most of the increases in the deficit this year are the delayed cost of republican programs.

This is bullshit. This is not “the people need to show politicians that they can’t do this to us” - which is something I would respect and support. This is “oh shit, the other party is in charge, let’s be as hysterical as possible so they can’t accomplish anything.”

[elucidator]

Only big problem with that,** Sam**, is that this is pretty much Glen Becks ego trip. You remember him, the guys who says Obama hates white people?

[SenorBeef]

@Sam_Stone

I think that’s unfair. Accusations of that kind of racism shouldn’t be tossed around lightly.

I somewhat agree with this. I’m generally hesistant to throw around accusations of racism, and I certainly don’t think this applies to everyone. And this is part of why I wrote my next post saying that it’s “protesting against the party guy expanding government” rather than a principled protest against government power in general. Either way it’s disingenuous.

But the amount of hatred Obama has received - before he was even elected president - is far beyond anything I’ve ever seen directed towards a politician. And he has done so little to deserve it. Self-made man, community service, no real scandals - and yet people feel confident to yell “KILL HIM!” in public?

I think part of the hatred towards stems from the fact that their side was in control for so long and yet fucked up so massively. On some level they know this, but they refuse to acknowledge it. So instead of dwell on the cognitive dissonance there, they instead ramp up the hatred towards the other guy - rekindle the fires of bitter partisanship and don’t think about how things turned out when you had your chance.

But I think a large component quite frankly is racism. I’m not calling everyone against Obama’s policies racist, but there is a huge, way out of proportion amount of hatred out there for him that I can’t sufficiently explain. Would there be so much furious hatred of John Edwards was president right now instead of Obama? I don’t think so.

I do think there’s a tendency to ignore the faults of your own party. For example, where are the marches on Washington against the Afghanistan war? They vanished when a Democrat became president.

Were there ever significant protests against Afghanistan? If you meant Iraq, then I think it’s just a matter of the decision already being made, we’re committed, and Obama is doing what he can to get us out of there. There are a lot of democrats that think he isn’t pulling out fast enough, but “take a few months off your withdraw schedule!” doesn’t make a great protest slogan.

And while you’re right that Bush presided over a huge expansion of government size, Obama has been presiding over an expansion of government control, and that’s a whole 'nuther thing. Had he just passed expansions of welfare coverage or a big payout to the Department of Education, I doubt if there would have been this kind of reaction. In fact, there wasn’t this kind of reaction to the stimulus package, which was a huge expansion of government spending.

Which is puzzling to me, quite frankly. Government bailing out big business - buying up the troubled assets that were created by their greed and deception - and propping up a failing business - these things don’t spur protest… but the idea of reforming health care does? What the hell is that? It does seem to support that conclusion that the participants at these events are being manipulated through fox news type sources by monied interests.

The difference this time is that the combination of the auto bailouts, talk about limiting CEO pay, and this move into healthcare really has people feeling that the government is becoming much more intrusive in their lives, and I think that’s scaring people. Money’s only one part of it. Obama hasn’t helped with his divisive rhetoric, comments about how it was time for the people who caused the problem to shut up and get out of the way, etc.

I’m sure there are racists in the crowd, just as there were anti-semites on display in the anti-war protests. I do not believe this was even marginally driven by such racism, just as I don’t think the anti-war protests were driven by anti-semitism. If Joe Biden were president and were doing the same things, I think you’d see a similar reaction.

I’m not sure I agree, but it’s not something I can prove. You may be somewhat insulated from the degree to which the hatred is spread throughout US society as you don’t live here. People often publically feel comfortable openly hating Obama and making racial slurs among strangers. The level of hatred is… perverse.

Quite frankly, I don’t buy that if the Republicans regained control of congress in 2012, and increased the deficit and granted themselves new powers that this same crowd would be out protesting. That’s what makes it disingenuous. This isn’t “government is out of control”, this is “democrats are in power and I’m going to throw a tantrum”.

I say sincerely that if I felt these protests actually were legitimately about government power and spending, I would not only support them but might even attend some. But they’re just partisan bullshit.

[El_Kabong]

Just wanted to comment on this:

@Evil One

So far the only other coverage I have seen was on CNN which took a ten second live shot and called it a “anti-health reform protest”. This was after devoting a two minute package to a pro-health reform “bus tour” that involved a few hundred at most. It will be amusing to watch the 30 minute network shows this evening and see how they treat an event that would have had wall to wall coverage if the people producing the network news had found it politically appropriate.

I don’t get much of my news from TV, since it tends to be superficial in the extreme, but the online services of the major networks certainly aren’t ignoring the protests. A quick check at around 5:30 PM central showed the following:

Yahoo News (AP wire feed) – Top item

FOXNews.com – Top item

CNN.com – approx. fifth item

MSNBC.com – Top item (based on AP wire story)

ABC.com – Top item (based on AP wire story)

CBS.com – approx. fourth item.

I can’t see what the OP’s complaint is here.

As for the protest itself, meh. Let 'em go for it, as long as they don’t start stoning the Capitol or something. Personally, though, I have nothing much at this time to protest in the current Congress and administration, certainly much less than during the tenure of our last Prez.

Most of what I have heard indicates that at least some of the imagery diplayed at today’s demo is clearly based on the rantings of the Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck Axis of Evil. Posters of Obama with a Hitler mustache? Please. If many of the protesters are in fact demonstrating against a notional fascist state, there is no question whatever that they have either made it up in their own heads or are willingly bowing down to the enormous tower of bullshit erected by the big 3 right-wing pundits over the past few months.

[SenorBeef]

@SenorBeef

And this is part of why I wrote my next post saying that it’s “protesting against the party guy expanding government”

I meant of course “the other party” or “the other guy” there.

[tomndebb]

@John_Mace

That was pretty much my reaction to the OP. There could be good thesis to be made on this subject, but none has been made so far. It’s not even a good Pit rant, so I wouldn’t suggest moving it to that forum.

So, Evil One, take another shot at it and see if you can make an argument worth arguing with.

Most pertinent post in this thread.

Either open a new rant in the Pit or open a new threead with an actual point to discuss.

[ /Moderating ]