Like many respondents so far, I am extremely interested in the technology, but what’s on the lots is currently out of my price range. However, I’m watching very closely, and I hope to be able to seriously consider a vehicle like this to replace what I currently use to commute in the next five years or so. As the technology gets actual road time and people get more confident about it, the price will come down and the reliability will go up.
Based on the responses here, it seems possible that hybrids may be the Next Big Thing. There will be a watershed price line, below which consumers will jump all over these vehicles. Given the increasing fragmentation of the auto market, and the specialization that has been leading to a lower and lower sales threshold for labeling a new car model a success, it’s quite possible that the next decade will see hybrids as a major breakout in the marketplace. I know I’d like to do my part in that.
Oh, and yeah, what Bobby Roberts said above makes a lot of sense: It seems like a better idea to use this technology to take the edge off the gas hogs than to add a few more MPGs to what are already more-efficient-than-average vehicles. That’s the turning point I’m really looking forward to.
I own a 2002 Toyota Prius and I am still in love with it. As of this morning, I had a cumulative average 42.5 MPG over the last 4400 miles or so. (We reset the cumulative mileage tracker every couple months.) The highest I’ve ever gotten was 47.4 MPG during the summer of 2002.
I love love love my car. I would buy it again, and the only thing I regret is that the 2004 Prius’s hybrid technology is a big leap forward over what I’ve got. (I want the coolest toys!) We knew when we first heard about the hybrid in 2000 that we wanted to get one, but we waited until the 2002 model came out because we wanted cruise control.
In my experience, this depends on how you define “short.” Five minutes is too short. Even a car that’s mostly battery-powered still has to do a little warmup. My commute is 20-30 minutes each way and that length seems to work pretty well. The farthest I’ve driven it in one trip is from Seattle to Portland, and even then it maintained pretty good mileage. Cruise control helps a lot, because the car controls its speed and the power it needs to maintain that speed better than I do. I do a lot of in-city interstate driving and have not had problems getting up to highway speeds quickly and usually get as good mileage on the highway as I do on the surface streets.
Weather has not been a big factor for me (but then again, I live in the Seattle area where weather alternates between is-raining and isn’t-raining.) In the winter I get slightly lower mileage, but I usually run the heater and/or defroster and that takes some power.
The Prius is one of the ones that shut the gas engine off entirely when idling and wake it up automatically - not all the hybrids out there do this. The April issue of Technology Review magazine (MIT Technology Review) has a cover story on hybrid cars that includes a sidebar describing the different kinds of hybrid technology available and under development from half a dozen car manufacturers.
Reliability has been great. After two years the only issue I have with it is that in cold weather there’s a buzz in the dashboard that I haven’t been able to pin down - some plastic part is vibrating. Although it might be something in the glove compartment too, I’m not sure. Hee.
Space issues - It might be a little snug for a big guy. However, I can fit all my hockey gear in the trunk, except for the stick, which fits across the back seat with no problem. Plenty of space for four people, a bit snug for five. One of my co-workers owns a Prius and he’s a really tall guy and seems to be OK with the size. pugluvr - the final price for our Prius was $24K plus change. That was with taxes and licensing and all the other goodies. I would imagine the 04 is going to run a little higher.
According to Edmunds, it is actually a bit lower. ($20+K) I understand that’s because Toyota now has an assembly plant for the Prius now.
I, too, an very interested in the technology. I do have two questions I’ve not seen addressed. The battery in these things is a pretty heavy hitter. What is the lifespan, and how much does it cost to replace?
I’ve had my Prius since October 2000 (2001 model). I used to travel in my job and it’s been all over the country. I had some trouble after about 45K miles, but it was completely covered. Something about the gas tank…non-hybrid-related, but the light would come on saying it was out of gas when it wasn’t.
I do love it and would buy another one. Besides the little problem, it’s been extremely reliable. One time I got pulled over doing 85 (yes, I got a ticket and I was driving to Iowa and some song came on so I was singing and not paying attention to how fast I was going).
I recently went to a market study on the Escape. I don’t think I’d buy one because it wasn’t low enough emissions/high enough mpg for me…I’d rather get a mid-sized sedan at that mileage/emissions, but that’s just me.
Overall, it’s so exciting to see where things are going and to be a part of it all. I would love to see so many people driving hybrids that it actually makes an impact on pollution.
We want a hybrid, too, but are also waiting. We need something to haul all the kids, the camping gear and the canoe, too. Hopefully, the current junkwagon will last a while longer.
I too have Prius envy. I’m in the position to start shopping for a new car. So, I started sending out email inquiries regarding the availability of Priuses (Prii?) in the Greater San Diego Metropolitan Area.
No-one has any. All of the dealers have waiting lists that average 8 months. If I’m flexible and don’t care what color/features my Prius has, I might be able to get one sooner. Bleah!
Oh, well, probably be best if I save the money for something less fun. Like retirement planning or something.
1; what happens in a couple of years when the batteries powering the electric motor dies, from what i’ve heard, it’s a not insubstantial amount of money to get them replaced, and aren’t the batteries considered “hazardous waste”?
2; how do hybrids handle cold weather, up here in Vermont, cold snaps of 15 to 30 below zero (farenheit) are not uncommon, don’t batteries lose their charge in cold weather?
3; technically, a hybrid (one that plugs in to charge the battery, right?) isn’t really reducing energy consumption, after all, the energy powering the car has to come from somewhere, instead of coming primarily from an internal combustion engine, it’s now coming from an electricity generating plant which burns some form of non-renewable resource, so, all it’s doing is relocating pollution, not reducing it
4; how does the performance of a hybrid compare to a fossil-fueled vehicle, i want something that has decent acceleration and handling, that’s another thing too, the batteries powering the electric motor aren’t exactly light, i’d imagine part of a hybrid’s lack of performance has to do with it lugging around heavy batteries…
personally, the two alternative fuel options i’d consider would be either a diesel (biodiesel) powered vehicle, or wait for hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles, where the only exhaust product is water vapor
on a personal note, i wouldn’t trust ford, i’m sure Danalan had great luck with their ford, and i’m happy for them, but my personal experiences with the blue oval have been less pleasant, personally, i’ve boycotted ford and never plan to own any of their vehicles as long as i live, i also try to convince others to choose anything other than ford, i feel fo-mo-co cannot and should not be trusted, in my personal experience, their products are utter crap
no they are gasoline/electric… no plug required. they generate a recharge from the friction from breaking or something of the sort.
Also a thing to note about the Prius is that the stereo and speakers cannot be replaced with aftermarket ones. I know it doesn’t have to do with the mpg, but I have to have a good stereo in my car (I am a music lover- what can I say) as well as get good mpg. All the reviews I have read (Car & Driver, Road & Track etc…) all say the stereo is shitty with shitty speakers and they cannot be changed out for better ones.
I’ve had my Prius for 3-1/2 years, battery hasn’t “died” yet. But if it does, it’s covered under warranty
I haven’t had a problem in Chicago. It was very cold in Iowa when I was there one time and the car asked me to “accelerate slowly” for about 5 minutes. I didn’t feel the difference (city driving), and everything was fine after the car warmed up.
The hybrids I know of don’t get plugged in, ever. While not the perfect solution, it’s way more efficient than regular engines, using braking- and coasting-generated energy to recharge the battery.
I don’t have a problem with the performance, but I suppose that’s a matter of personal taste.
I agree it’s not the perfect solution, but I feel really strongly about the environment (plus I love tech toys), so this was a great solution when my Saturn kept crapping out on me.
We use the Toyota Prius as one of our fleet cars (I work for an environmental agency in Washington State). The consensus around the office is they are fine for driving in town, but no one signs out the Prius for going over the Cascades–it’s underpowered for pass driving. However, the agency is following the hybrid market closely and will probably continue to replace older fleet vehicles with hybrids when practical (a Prius will probably not be purchased to replace our V-10 Spill rigs).
As you may imagine, many of my co-workers are interested in making environmentally sound purchasing decisions. And many of them are outdoor people. In order to get a vehicle that the meets their needs (hauling hiking gear, skis, etc.; towing boats; winter driving) and walk the talk, many are turning to biodiesel vehicles.
Just something else to consider if you need towing capacity or more room than the current hybrids offer. Biodiesel is becoming more available all the time.
Not a couple of years, but 5-10 years. At some point, the batteries will wear out. As they age, they’ll hold less of a charge, and the gasoline engine will do more work. At some point, your gas mileage and performance will be bad enough that you’ll want to replace them. Probably a $5,000 hit or so. The hybrid Escape has a battery system that fits into the cargo floor like a big briefcase - it’s easy to replace. But definitely, anyone considering a hybrid should factor in the battery replacement cost - even if you plan to sell the car after a few years, because a half-life battery will affect resale value.
Another unknown to me is the life of the electric motor. How long will it last, and how much will it cost to replace? Gasoline engines are a well-understood commodity. How electrics will stand up to to years of abuse has yet to be seen.
Another issue that needs to be addressed is accident safety. What if an accident ruptures the battery? What if a piece of metal shorts out the battery terminals? I imagine these issues have been designed for - I’m just not familiar with the risks/solutions.
I would assume that the battery won’t hold a charge as well, and that gas mileage will therefore suffer in cold climates. I don’t know how it would affect drivetrain life.
No, a hybrid is not plugged in - the gas motor turns a generator which charges the battery.
There are several reasons why this is more efficient than a standard gasoline engine. First, gasoline engines burn fuel while they are idling. In a hybrid, the gasoline engine shuts off in stop-and go traffic. Second, when you brake a normal car, the kinetic energy of the vehicle is transferred to the brake pads and vented away to the atmosphere as heat. That’s a waste of energy. In a hybrid, when you brake you actually engage a generator which creates electricity, recouping the energy you spent getting up to speed.
Finally, an internal combustion engine has an RPM range where it is maximally efficient. With a hybrid, you can run the gas engine at a constant RPM to charge the electric motor. This is one reason why trains use diesel-electric locomotives - the diesel can run at a constant RPM in the peak efficiency range, providing electrical power to the motors that actually do the work of moving the train.
Note that all the above advantages really come into play in city driving. That’s why hybrids actually get *better gas mileage in the city than on the highway. In fact, on long highway drives a hybrid is really no more efficient than a traditional car with an comparably sized gas engine.
It totally depends on the vehicle. There is nothing about hybrid technology that says it has to be wimpy. Consider, for example, the Mitsubishi Hybrid Eclipse, which has a 270 HP gas engine, AND a 200 HP electric motor, for a total of 470HP. And for performance nuts, it’s important to note that DC electric motors make maximum torque at low RPM, whereas gas engines make more torque at high RPM. Most people’s perception of city performance is heavily influenced by off-the-line acceleration, which electrics excel at. So even though the Prius for example has a relatively slow 0-60 time, it feels much more powerful in stop-and-go traffic. On the other hand, some of the fast Japanese sports cars like the RX-8 make lots of horsepower at high RPMs, but feel pretty doggish in typical city driving.
Hybrid technology is here to stay, and it’s going to be HUGE. There will be hybrid sports cars that will blow your socks off. Hybrid SUVs for the backcountry that can go 800 miles on a tank of gas, and which have 110V power for the campsite. GM is making a hybrid truck called the “Contractor Special” which is really cool - you drive it to the job site, and once you’re there you open a door in the back and expose an entire power panel for your tools. The truck uses a diesel engine which can run 24 hours a day, and the generator system basically turns your truck into a powerful onsite generator. Farmers will love that. Repairing fences will be a lot easier when you can bring along your power saws, nail guns, drills, etc. You’re going to see these vehicles on construction sites everywhere.
It’s still very early in the Hybrid game, and I’m sure subsequent generations of vehicles will be fantastic. The new Prius already is. The new Ford Escape Hybrid looks like a really good truck too (and has the same performance as the 201HP Escape, with almost twice the gas mileage). I’m anxiously awaiting the first hybrid sports cars, because I think they’ll have some very cool features.
My main complaint about hybrids is that the mileage is not significantly better than a good diesel car would get. For the moment, I’d rather go with the diesel - a well-tested technology, and cheaper. But I look forward to future developments. And hey, it’s not like we’re going to be in the market for a new car anytime soon anyway…
I do a lot of in-city interstate driving and have not had problems getting up to highway speeds quickly and usually get as good mileage on the highway as I do on the surface streets.