Are hybrid cars worth it for someone who usually drives long distances on highways

For someone who drives 50 to 200 miles a day, 3 days/week on all limited access highways with no to very little congestion (perhaps a deer). Another 2 days about 30 mi/day on open 2 lane roads, very little city driving. Would a hybrid car be worth the cost?

My understanding is most of the savings come from regenerative braking which really helps out in stop and go driving. It seems like for conditions when brakes are really only used to stop you once you get to your destination that the advantage of a hybrid is not so big compaired to a simular gas only car.

An additional benifit is that the gas motor in the hybrid would run at the most efficient speed required to recharge the batteries, but then again at a constant speed (using cruse control) in overdrive is pretty efficient too.

Is this a good canidate for a hybrid car?

Your engine in overdrive is fairly efficient, yes, but imagine if you could turn your engine off and still maintain your speed. Now THAT would be efficient.

That’s basically what happens with hybrid cars. Just like any other car, they get their best fuel mileage going at a constant speed for long distances. So yeah, if you’re taking trips that amount to 200 miles a day once you learn how to drive the car you can get hella gas mileage.

Oh, one other thing. The premium you pay for the car won’t be made up for at least five years (unless gas becomes stupifyingly expensive), so factor that into your equation.

A friend owns a Prius, and loves it. He’s got a decent commute, and his mileage claims would justify the extra cost up front.

      • Under some circumstances a hybrid can get mileage that is no better than a regular gasoline-only engined vehicle. The standard test the (US) EPA uses to estimate fuel economy greatly overestimates the efficiency of hybrids, keeping them in their “electric” cycles for much of the test:
        http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/12/1436225&mode=thread&tid=126
  • If you visit the Pete Blackshaw site, you note that his Honda Civic hybrid is averaging ~32 MPG; a Chevy Corvette would get 28 MPG…
    ~

We have a friend who has had a Prius for a couple of years now, and she says she gets better mileage around town than on the highway. Of course, YMMV. :wink:
Anyway, as I understand it, the electric motor is the primary motive power at slower speeds, and the IC engine moves the car at higher speeds. Am I correct in this assumption, anybody?

You might consider one of the newer diesel engined cars. They’re much better nowadays than they used to be. Just MHO.

Plus, currently, for the first time in God-only-knows how long, diesel is actually cheaper than the lowest octane.

We have a Honda Civic Hybrid. It’s got a 50 litre tank and we routinely get 850 to 900 km on a tank which is around 5.5 to 5.8 litres for 100 kilometers. It gets almost twice the gas mileage as our regular civic which pretty good gas mileage. The Hybrid is drivin half in the city half on the highway. If you were to drive on the highway for an entire tank we clear well over 900. That is my mother driving.

If I do the driving on the entire tank, I go well over the speed limit and really accelerate. I got 780 km’s on a tank.

Airman is about right that it’ll take about 5 years before it makes you any money. It’s a little better for the environment though.

Oh, in my mom’s case, she gets a certain amount of money from the government (I think it’s the Canadian government but it may be the Ontario government) every year just for owning one. I’m not sure whether or not it’s available to you though.

In my own personal opinion, it’s well worth it. I’m going to buy one as my next vehicle.

From what I understand of Hybrid vehicles, that would make no sense. Hybrids perform with most efficiency at consistent speeds. Driving on the highway, unless you’re in slow and go traffic, would be far more consistent than driving around a town with streetlights and different MPHs throughout affecting your speed. Like the TM stated they do a lot of Highway driving, i would definitely reccomend a Hybrid to them. The article linked to on Slashdot is accurate, the stated MPGs on Hybrid cars is their maximum efficiency NOT their average. Acceleration on a Hybrid is what uses up gas more rapidly, so anything but consistent speed driving leads to a less efficient MPG.

Do hybrids have A/C? Is it run from the engine or with an electric motor?

Depends on where you are–around here, diesel was more expensive than premium gas. A couple days ago, diesel was listed at $2.75/gal at my local gas station.

Seems counter-intuitive doesn’t it? However, as I understand it, the IC motor does not accelerate or decelerate, it runs at a constant speed, it’s either on or it’s off. At startup and at slower speeds, the vehicle is propelled by the elecric motor running off the battery (or batteries), and not burning any gasoline at all.
The computer only turns on the IC motor when the load is such that the electric motor needs help, or the battery needs charging.
Therefore, at slower speeds, and stop and go around town, Ic motor is off part of the time, burning no gas, and on when needed, burning gas. At highway speeds, the IC engine is on continuously, burning gas continuously.
Thus consuming more gas at highway speeds.
That’s how it was explained to me anyway.

In addition you have to factor in that resistance grows in a larger than linear fashion as speed increases, so 2 hour at 35 MPH will result in less energy lost due to external resistance than 1 hour at 70 MPH (as some friction factors increase with speed squared and some, even greater than that IIRC!)

However, in a non-hybrid car, you get less gas mileage in the city due to starts and stops, and I would have to guess, motor friction due to being in lower gears a lot of the time. In a hybrid car, these are cancelled out due to regeneration, and if these posters are accurate, the engine only having one speed. Therefore it is possible to have a higher mileage in the city than the highway (not saying it’s true, just possible :)) I would imagine if speeds regularly got up to 70 MPH in the city between stop lights the mileage difference would narrow, disappear, or reverse again (since reconversion to motive force is never %100 efficient)

Yeesh, thats horrible. I doubt that is representative of what to expect. I get 33 around town and 36 on the highway with a 2000 Saturn econo box. Not bad for an automatic but I would still expect better from a hybrid. The cost of the car is higher and you have to factor in the cost of replacing the fancy batteries which are not cheap.

I would estimate the cost of driving based on a new Saturn using $1.85 a gallon, $2.00 a gallon, and $3.00 a gallon. Do this over 4 years and compare it to a Prius (include the cost of new batteries). All other costs should be close enough to get an idea of what to expect. As the cost of gas rises you will see the cost of a Prius come down.

Just listening to Clark Howard on the radio it is still not economical to buy a Prius but he is probably basing that on average use driving. If you’re putting 50,000 miles a year on a car than the price of gas is a greater consideration.

Diesel would be an option if there was a station near by that actually sells the stuff, but in this case the limited access highway is a parkway - this means no trucks,and no truck fuel has popped up along the way.

It seems like a hybrid car is not really worth it in this case and better to just get a ‘conventional’ car with a good mpg rating.

The last time I was out car shopping we looked at hybrids.

It’s listed right in the specs that the city mpg is higher than the highway mpg - the opposite of non-hybrid cars.

We wound up buying a Toyota Echo, non-hybrid that runs on regular 87 octane. We’ve been getting 40 mph on the highway with it. You might want to test drive one and see if it meets your needs.

Hybrid engine tech is pretty fascinating, especially because of how simple the idea is. Take the otherwise lost energy from braking and under-utilizing the gas engine, and redistribute it so that you can use that energy instead where it is needed, during acceleration, while at the same time allowing the manufacturer to install a smaller, more efficient gasoline engine.

Most of the hybrid gas savings are seen around town in the city, and highway mileage, while still better, will be closer to that of a standard gasoline engine powered car. The reason why is because a gasoline engine is at its most efficient at closer to full throttle, and at steady speeds. The hybrid system can’t really do much at a steady speed on the highway, since the gas engine is already at the most efficient it will be running, so any gas savings on the highway will be from the fact that a hybrid will have a smaller gasoline engine than a standard car.

The reason city fuel mileage is better in a hybrid, is because of some of the tricks it uses to achieve that mileage. In the case of the Toyota Prius (and I imagine the civic is the same in this regard, since the insight was) the gasoline engine will automatically be turned off while the car is stopped, and only restarted again when needed. Since the electric motor is there, with batteries charged by both regenerative braking (slowing down the car by having the wheels spin a generator to slow down the car, in combination with standard brakes) and by having the engine itself run the generator in some circumstances (thus allowing the gasoline engine to be run at its most efficient throttle settings more often), pressing the throttle can result in the car being moved along at lower speeds just by the electric motor, and the car will automatically kick in the gasoline motor when it’s power is needed.

Think of the hybrid drivetrain as a rather ingenious method of reallocating otherwise lost energy from things like braking, and using it instead to move your car down the road.

If you can picture your cars efficiency doing city driving as something akin to a waveform, starting on zero as you are stopped, then moving gradually up as you start moving from a stop sign, gradually building up as your speed levels off, peaking while you are coasting along before braking, then dropping down to nothing as you burn off your built up energy by hitting the brakes, and venting it off as heat, you’ll get an idea for how a hybrid improves fuel mileage. Once you start braking, you would normally begin venting off all of your built up momentum and energy as heat in the brakes. A hybrid will instead turn the engine off at the stop sign, then with the energy gleaned from braking, assist the gasoline engine in accelerating the car, fattening up that efficiency curve. as your speed levels off and you start coasting, the electric motor stops assisting, and as you apply the brakes to stop, the regenerative braking system kicks in by allowing the brakes to be used less, and by instead slowing the car some by having it spin a generator. It’s a deceptively simple technology, it’s just that until recently we lacked the kind of computer power required to do it cheaply.

On the highway, a lot of the benefits are lost, since a hybrid system doesn’t add more efficiency for free, it is just giving you back energy you would have otherwise lost. On the highway, your gasoline engine is running at its most efficent anyways, and in that situation, the hybrid engine can’t help you get any better gas mileage than any other well designed gasoline engine of similar size. It will just give you a little extra kick in passing. The hybrid works by filling in the gaps where a standard gasoline engine is least efficient is all, so if you only intend on driving it on the highway, any small fuel efficient car will work well, and while your gas mileage would still be a smidge better due to the smaller hybrid engine, fuel cost wouldn’t be a reason to choose one in your case.

It’s an awesome piece of technology, and if you lived in an environment with more stop and go driving, where the benefits would be dramatic, I’d go for it (I wouldn’t mind one myself) but on the highway, the benefits are essentially wasted.

I expect in the future we will see hybrid engines become rather common, as it is simply too good of an idea not to implement, that even has benefits for performance cars, as anything that increases efficiency will also let you make more power (or in this case, use otherwise lost power where you want it)

2004 Prius owner here.
Note that due to the low coefficent of drag, the 2004 Prius gets pretty good highway milage. (High 40s)

Despite the flaws in the EPA estimates, some people DO get better than EPA estimated milage
http://www.priuschat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1589

Brian

Woo for the Echo!

Although this Echo owner lives in an apartment and there’s a Prius that parks nearby. I’m starting to get Toyota envy. Not so much for the possibly-better gas mileage, it’s just that the Prius is so cool looking and absolutely silent at low speed. There’s something incredibly cool about this sleek looking car just kinda…gliding in to a parking space.

You could run over neighborhood kids and pets.
:slight_smile: