Hypothetical on Pitbull Presence

[redtail23]

@Otara

Irrationality tends to go both ways on this issue, people who love them will tend to explain away attacks and risk, people who are scared of them will overattend to them.

This isnt a particularly rare or even irrational fear to have for people who dont have a lot of contact with dogs. But the thread makes it pretty clear how it will go in practise with most dog owners.

Otara

True enough, but fairly neutral people know that an irrational fear is just that - irrational. The facts show that pit bulls are not, in general, the tremendously dangerous dogs that media hype has made them out to be. I’ve never owned a pit, and don’t particularly want to. I acknowledge that idiots and assholes can create dangerous dogs, but that has nothing to do with the type of dog.

As far as I’ve seen, the dog people in this thread have said that IF someone is dog-phobic and politely asks for consideration, they would get it. What’s the problem with that?

Oh but wait, dog owners should assume that every person they meet is dog-phobic, and keep their dogs locked away to prevent any possible discomfort on the phobic’s part. The phobic doesn’t have any responsibility to take care of themself, everyone else should do everything for them.

I will agree that some idiots and assholes will argue with said phobic rather than accommodating them, but then it would behoove the phobic to leave rather than put up with said idiots and assholes.

I have friends with whom I’ve regularly cooked/eaten for 25 years. They still sometimes forget and fix things that I can’t/won’t eat. I suppose that makes them evil people, for not devoting their lives to catering to me. And rather than dealing with the situation for myself, I should sulk the night away waiting for them to fix everything for me because I shouldn’t have to take care of myself.

The host mentioned in the OP certainly doesn’t sound like a friend that close, if all of the other guests were strangers. So perhaps he simply forgot about the phobia? Or maybe the dog wasn’t a pit bull, so he didn’t realize that it triggered the phobia? And maybe, just maybe, if the OP had such a tremendous problem, she should have taken the responsibility for her own problem, and asked for some help rather than expecting a group of strangers to read her mind and fix a problem that none of them realized existed.

[Otara]

"True enough, but fairly neutral people know that an irrational fear is just that - irrational. "

Its also ‘irrational’ to be scared of the large majority of snakes and spiders, yet most people would consider it quite rude to expect people to be fine with them as a starting point if someone brought one out unannounced.

Dog owners simply have a blind spot on this issue because they simply cant imagine the idea of them seeming scary to people who dont have much contact with them.

Otara

[Eyebrows_0f_Doom]

@otternell

I would have spotted the dog immediately, and would have made a bee-line for the owner and asked if I could pet their dog. Then I would promptly ignore all other humans (clearly the person who brought the dog is ok) and spend my evening talking about dogs and petting this dog.

If I wasn’t allowed to pet the dog, I would wander away so as to not be tempted, but I would constantly watch it, thinking “man, I want to pet that dog!”. (Anyone remember Mitch Hedberg, and his Smacky (sp?) the Frog bit? That’s the voice I would use to think that!)

This exactly.

[Tamerlane]

@Babale

New question: I went to a BBQ. Someone had an unleashed, fullgrown velociraptor. Is asking the velociraptor’s owner to remove said velociraptor morally justified?

Eh, they’re the size of a Turkey. Don’t be such a wimp ;).

Now if it was a Deinonychus, even I would request they be kept inside for the duration.

[Munch]

@Otara

Its also ‘irrational’ to be scared of the large majority of snakes and spiders, yet most people would consider it quite rude to expect people to be fine with them as a starting point if someone brought one out unannounced.

You’re going to have to provide some sort of backup to that statement, specifically that snake/spider handlers would a) bring out their pet unannounced and b) wouldn’t be willing to box it up if someone protested. Those are REALLY big assumptions you’re making. We have a guy in the neighborhood that walks his python around. He wouldn’t DREAM of approaching someone who didn’t ask first. Your entire premise is flawed.

[Otara]

Im pretty sure you’re actually supporting my point but I may have missed something.

Otara

[Babale]

@Otara

"True enough, but fairly neutral people know that an irrational fear is just that - irrational. "

Its also ‘irrational’ to be scared of the large majority of snakes and spiders, yet most people would consider it quite rude to expect people to be fine with them as a starting point if someone brought one out unannounced.

Dog owners simply have a blind spot on this issue because they simply cant imagine the idea of them seeming scary to people who dont have much contact with them.

Otara

It’s perfectly mainstream to hate Creepy Crawlies ™. It is not perfectly mainstream to have a dog phobia. Let’s put it this way: If I had a Jurassic Park shirt, I wouldn’t hesitate to wear it because someone might have been scarred for life by that movie. Are there people who would be angry at me for wearing such a shirt? Sure. But they aren’t common. Same with dogs (to a lesser degree): Not many people are dog-phobic. Many, many people ARE Arachnophobic, though, so I wouldn’t bring a Tarantula to a picnic.

And Velociraptors may be small, but they have some nasty claws! Besides, THEY CAN OPEN DOORS!

[Munch]

@Otara

Im pretty sure you’re actually supporting my point but I may have missed something.

Quite true. Let’s go here: spiders and snakes are surprises. They aren’t a normal encounter in your day when you’re outside your home. But, there’s a reasonable expectation on the part of the dog owner that people at the party have had a minimal amount of exposure to a dog to preclude him from having to sound off klaxons, hire a skywriter and present gold-embossed notices to the guests that he will be presenting a canis lupus familiaris for all to wonder at.

It may be a blind spot for dog owners to think of people with completely irrational fears that prevent them from moving upon seeing a dog. But it’s also a blind spot for people with prize winning lotus flowers to think of people with trypophobia.

If the host had been friends with someone with OCD who insisted that everyone he encountered touch their nose 3 times while twirling around a tree, would it be rude to insist people comply? Would it be rude to suggest that the person with OCD simply *assume *that everyone should comply with their wishes/demands rather than communicating them?

[Sailboat]

@Ibanez

I love all dogs. Certain breeds I wouldn’t want as a pet. Pitbulls, Rottweilers and Dobermans. Just because they are more likely to snap for no particular reason.

That’s a myth, you know. There’s no physical or psychological basis for the breeds to do that, and interestingly enough, there’s no observed evidence that they do either.

@Otara

Irrationality tends to go both ways on this issue, people who love them will tend to explain away attacks and risk

I’m tired of this argument being pulled out. You don’t know that, you don’t even see it in this thread, you just want to claim it. I never said there’s no risk to having a dog present. But I did say (and it’s scientifically supportable) that there’s no different risk involved in having a pit bull over another type of dog, except the dog’s body mass perhaps.

@Otara

But the thread makes it pretty clear how it will go in practise with most dog owners.

You mean this thread where several people have said they do not have dogs, or even in some cases have said they do not even like dogs, but still defended the dog’s presence? Since they aren’t dog owners, I think it’s safe to realize that this thread makes it pretty clear how it will go in practice with everyone except people who have some kind of problem.

@Otara

Dog owners simply have a blind spot on this issue because they simply cant imagine the idea of them seeming scary to people who dont have much contact with them.

Eh, maybe if you’re talking about some rich old lady and her lapdog. However, in the current anti-pit-bull hysteria (which simply replaced previous waves of hysteria about Rottweilers, German Shepherd Dogs, Bloodhounds, and even Dachshunds), believe me, practically every family with a pit bull is keenly aware of the level of fear and anxiety with which many folks regard their dogs. Every pit bull owner I know is sensitive to people crossing the street to avoid their dog, or pulling their children close, or throwing poisoned meat over the fence to get rid of a “neighborhood menace,” and a hundred other issues. Insurance rates, homeowner’s association rules, local laws, police shooting dogs (talk to the mayor of Berwyn Heights), bored local newspaper reporters trying to get an inflammatory headline – all these things worry people who love pit bulls. We know people are scared of our dogs – hell, people who don’t even know what a pit bull looks like are scared of the word.

And even the posturing thugs know it. Why do you think a bad guy thinks he wants a pit bull? because it’s a bad-ass dog, man – because it scares people.

Maybe you’re really reaching here to try and win your point, but it’s just foolishness to say “dog owners have a blind spot and can’t imagine anyone finds their dog scary” when you’re talking about people who care for pit bulls. Trust me, we know.

[Otara]

“It may be a blind spot for dog owners to think of people with completely irrational fears that prevent them from moving upon seeing a dog. But it’s also a blind spot for people with prize winning lotus flowers to think of people with trypophobia”

One is far more common than the other, any reasonable sized party is pretty much guaranteed to have someone uncomfortable with dogs or worse.

For what its worth in Australia Pit Bulls are considered a ‘restricted breed’, and these are the expectations for owners in Victoria:

http://www.melbourne-petminders.com.au/Dangerous_or_restricted_dog_breeds.htm

Ive made my point, we’re not going to agree. Hopefully its some use for the original poster, because it was a given that the main replies to this thread was going to be from dog lovers.

And yes I own a dog.

Otara

[Freudian_Slit]

@Otara

"True enough, but fairly neutral people know that an irrational fear is just that - irrational. "

Its also ‘irrational’ to be scared of the large majority of snakes and spiders, yet most people would consider it quite rude to expect people to be fine with them as a starting point if someone brought one out unannounced.

Dog owners simply have a blind spot on this issue because they simply cant imagine the idea of them seeming scary to people who dont have much contact with them.

But at some point, we have to assume that certain things won’t be phobias. There are people with phobias of things like cucumbers, but we don’t check before bringing a salad to a pot luck. There’s probably at least one person out there who’s afraid of something that might be at a barbecue, but we don’t check withe everyone about every little thing before inviting them. Most people would probably classify dogs as relatively harmless because it’s not that common to have a phobia of them.

[Babale]

@Otara

“It may be a blind spot for dog owners to think of people with completely irrational fears that prevent them from moving upon seeing a dog. But it’s also a blind spot for people with prize winning lotus flowers to think of people with trypophobia”

One is far more common than the other,

Which is why people don’t bring spiders and snakes to parties, but do bring dogs.

any reasonable sized party is pretty much guaranteed to have someone uncomfortable with dogs or worse.

Uncomfortable? Sure, because of the stupid irrational germophobia of modern members of Western nations. Petting a dog and not washing your hands after has never killed anyone, people!

But worse? Really? Because I can’t think of a single friend or family member or other person who I come into contact with regularly who is scared of dogs. I guess a few would be grossed out by a dog licking them, but nothing like the OP.

Well, except for kids under the age of 8. They are either completely oblivious to the “canine menace” or are deathly afraid of dogs.

Hell, I know three people who have some sort of bird-related phobia. I can’t think of ANYONE who is afraid of dogs.

[Zoe]

The situation was hypothetical, folks. My own experience was much less intimidating. The owner was extremely attentive and nurturing to the puppy. The puppy was very quiet and I had no fear of it.

The hostess had no reason to think that I would be threatened since she has a black lab the size of a horse that I am crazy about. I had several dogs when I was growing up and dogs seem to take to me.

But I have always made it a practice to ask guests before they come if cats bother them. Zeldar and I have had one cat or another for most of our married life. I’ve been exposed to many people who dislike cats and so I try to anticipate any problems. My friend is a marvelous hostess and I was surprised that she failed to be considerate by the standards of the crowd that we move within.

That set me to wondering what most people would do.

Some of your responses lead me to wonder if you learned you mannners from a chow.

Minnie Luna: I also doubt the “pit bull” label. Pits are so often mis-identified, especially by people who have a fear of dogs.

In a hypothetical situation, all facts are assumed to be true. In my own situation I do not have a fear of dogs. In fact, I used to be a wolf docent at a wildlife park here. Pits may be often misidentified, but not usually by their owner. I asked him.

In general, most of you made reasonable arguments for your opinions and I appreciate your responses.

[Cat_Whisperer]

You’ve reminded me to let people know we have two cats in the house for our Halloween party - they always disappear when new people come over, so I don’t think to warn people (but their fur is still around. Oh yes, the fur is still around.)

[Superhal]

Your friend should have warned you, the owner was irresponsible to leave it off the leash, and your fear is irrational.

[steronz]

@Zoe

The situation was hypothetical, folks. … But I have always made it a practice to ask guests before they come if cats bother them.

I’m having trouble reconciling this post with your OP. If a good host makes mention of even a common house cat, then surely a good host would make mention of any dog. Right? If so, your hypothetical should have just involved a generic dog. “I went to a party and there was a dog there, and nobody told me! Harumph.” Apparently, in your mind, you can replace dog with cat and have the same reaction.

If that’s the point you were trying to make, that hosts should announce to their guests that pets will be present, then I don’t see why you muddied the hypothetical with a big scary velociraptor.

[cochrane]

The dog’s breed would not concern me in the least. I love dogs. I had a friend years ago who had a couple of mixed breeds. He said one was a pit bull-shepard cross and the other was a Doberman-Afghan mix. Both dogs were the ugliest dogs I’d ever seen, but totally non-agressive. You could walk into the guy’s yard and they would come running up, tails wagging. He had a couple of young kids that the dogs were totally gentle around. These dogs were on no way threatening. I don’t have much experience with pit bulls, but I believe they have an undeserved bad reputation, and like any other dog, how well it’s been socialized when it is young determines its behavior as an adult.

[Munch]

@Zoe

But I have always made it a practice to ask guests before they come if cats bother them.

I’m bothered by cats (I’m allergic). I never expect the host/hostess to bring it up, but it is always nice when they do. I usually have an emergency supply of benadryl or claritin in the car, but not always. That lets me plan ahead.

[lindsaybluth]

@Munch

@Zoe

But I have always made it a practice to ask guests before they come if cats bother them.

I’m bothered by cats (I’m allergic). I never expect the host/hostess to bring it up, but it is always nice when they do. I usually have an emergency supply of benadryl or claritin in the car, but not always. That lets me plan ahead.

My little brother is finally in the habit of benadryl in his pocket, in case a cat is around. It’s never a problem…except when the pet owner is especially bad at cleaning, which happens.

[FallenAngel]

Being a dog lover and a fan of pit bulls, though I can’t own one because of my leash, it would never strike me to even harbor a negative or concerned thought about it, and I wouldn’t hold anyone who did in any particularly high regard.

I don’t feel the need to tell anyone who’s coming to my house that I have an Italian mastiff, for example, nor do I bother to tell them there are firearms all over the house. To be fair, anyone I’m likely to invite to my house would likely already know these two things, but anyone who was inclined to freak out about them (or my hypothetical pit bull) would likely not be invited back.