It’s a dog, not a velociraptor. Even in the off chance it does snap and start biting people, the grown-ass men in the area would jump on it and hold it down.
I wouldn’t mind if the dog were behaving well, and as a host, I wouldn’t consider warning anyone or asking anyone NOT to bring their dog, leashed or not UNLESS I had reason to believe that either someone there was phobic of dogs or that the dog in question was less than well behaved.
OR unless small children were going to be present…they are drawn to dogs like electromagnets and even some of the best behaved, friendly dogs get annoyed with small children poking and pulling at them (and looking them in the eye, something they naturally find threatening and a sign of aggression).
There is a hotel near here, Timberline Lodge (where the Kubric Shining was filmed), and they had some St. Bernards roaming around the grounds for years. Some years back they stopped letting them out when the public was present because one of them bit a small boy (not a bad bite, a snap, but still). The little darling was, at the time, pushing FRENCH FRIES up the animal’s nose, while his doting parents, presumably, stood by and watched. Those dogs were about the mellowist I’ve ever come across. Everyone has their limits. 
At a laid back, casual environment like a bar-b-que, it is unfair to both the dog bringer and the parents of the children to facillitate a situation in which both have to be on their guard more or less constantly.
I don’t fear pitbulls especially. Some of the sweetest dogs I’ve known have been pitbulls…one a friend had used to terrify pizza delivery men when he stuck his head out the door but spent the evening flopped across my lap, begging to have his tummy rubbed and drooling lovingly up at me. What a killer! :rolleyes:
On the other hand, if they are ill-bred (in-bred), poorly treated and/or TRAINED to be vicious (and I have witnessed the way the a-hole gang-bangers do this…they slap, kick, hold it up by it’s ears or tail, and otherwise abuse the puppy until it becomes MEAN) they can be lethal weapons.
Any dog can be made mean, but a pitbull was bred to fight bulls…to go for the throat and not let go, and they have the head, the upper body and jaw strength and the tenacity for it. hence, when a pitbull attacks/bites, it is often much more serious than when other breeds do.
When my son was a toddler, we had friends who had a couple of pitbull- shar pei mixes. The male was fine. The female was a BITCH (very territorial and aggressive)and they let her in the house when we visited. I was constantly watching my son and snatched him up JUST before she went for his face on more than one occaision. I finally said (after they kept insisting the dog was “fine”) that either I would hold my son the whole time, the dog would go OUTSIDE or we would stop visiting.
I KNOW dogs. When I was 4, I was bitten badly by a German Shepherd (got me by the leg in the street and mauled me) and the event made me very aware of the signals dogs send out but, perhaps oddly, not afraid of dogs.
I base my judgement on the individual dog, the signals it is sending out (averting its eyes from the child/adult/licking its lips, wagging its tail…which can indicate aggression as well as friendliness…growling, hackles rising, etc…). But I’d rather not have to spend my time at a party worrying about a free-roaming dog IF I had a free-roaming kid in tow. If it was just me, no biggie. I can just avoid contact with the beast and/or kick it across the damn yard if it tries anything.
If it took you a couple of minutes to even notice the dog? I understand having a fear of dogs, but the dog in this scenario the dog wasn’t approaching you, as you stated you took a while to notice it.
The owner obviously knows his/her dog well enough that he/she was allowed off lead and wasn’t creating a problem. You don’t state that the dog was humping legs, stealing food off plates, jumping on people or being ill-behaved in any way. I would love a dog that goes unnoticed. Ours is an attention slut and would have been all over any newcomer demanding pets (she doesn’t jump, but she slams her body next to you until you acknowledge her existence).
I also doubt the “pit bull” label. Pits are so often mis-identified, especially by people who have a fear of dogs.
I do rescue. We have a number of friends in rescue. We are used to going to parties where the rule is, bring your well-behaved dog. The dogs swim in the pool, chase each other around and tire each other out. We socialize puppies this way. Throw 'em in a situation with a lot of people and a bunch of dogs. The dogs will teach them how to behave around other dogs, the people will teach them what is appropriate around people.
My (rhetorical) question for Zoe, how do you think people get well-behaved dogs? A dog behaved enough not to jump all over you the second you entered the social setting. A dog behaved enough for you not to notice him.
Dogs (no matter the breed) don’t come programmed to know how to act in human social situations. If this dog was still in the “training phase” I applaud the owner for bringing it to a social situation where it is going to encounter strangers and a moderate amount of activity. I doubt it was, since IMHO, the dog was well-behaved.
I love standard poodles. They’re just excellent, very pretty dogs.
To speak of canines with bad reputations; I have personally played with a wolf. Not a wolf mix. A full wolf. (I believe I’ve heard that wolf-dog mixes are actually more dangerous because they get confused by different instincts, but anyway..) This was at an wild animal rescue and he roamed free in the backyard. And he was a sweetheart. He never bothered me. The deer on the other hand…
If I knew that you had some sort of dog-phobia (general or specific), I might have warned you in advance. I say “might” because it would depend on whether I remembered your phobia in time to give advance warning. If I did remember and knew that a dog would be there, I would certainly have warned you, but I wouldn’t feel tremendously guilty if I hadn’t, unless you were such a regular visitor to my house that I really should know these things.
If you politely asked for help with your dog-phobia at the event, I would have asked the owner to leash or remove the dog. I have dealt with similar situations many times in the past.
However, I don’t generally assume that every person I meet is going to have an irrational fear that I should cater to without even knowing it exists.
It’s your irrational fear - you need to grow up and deal with the situation. And yes, being unable to take your eyes off of a well-behaved dog who is lying quietly next to his owner in a crowd IS irrational, I don’t care what the breed is.
By “deal with the situation”, I don’t necessarily mean “suck it up and get over it”, I mean politely take whatever steps are necessary to ensure your own comfort.
Among my friends, mentioning your phobia and making a courteous request to leash the dog to make you more comfortable would be considered completely reasonable.
If you made such a request and got no help, then politely asking for an escort back to your car would certainly be acceptable.
Or if you were so paranoid that you just couldn’t stand to be there, and for whatever reason you didn’t want to mention why, then make a polite excuse (e.g., suddenly feeling unwell) and leave.
But to expect a host to routinely cater to your whims? No, not really reasonable.
No. A host has enough obligations. Catering to someone’s irrational fears shouldn’t be one of them.
What you (and others) call “catering to someone’s irrational fears” I call “taking reasonable measures to ensure the comfort of their guests.” Which is a pretty much a host’s main obligation, IMO.
What if the guest had an irrational fear of children? African Americans? Baptists? What reasonable measures should the host take?
The person in the hypothetical was too frightened to look away, turn her back, or even ask for assistance in dealing with a dog who clearly was no threat to anyone. If she was unable to ask the owner to hold on to the dog long enough for her to make her getaway I don’t know what accommodations would be sufficient.
Sorry. The onus is on the person who has the irrational fear, no one else.
I’ve got my own phobia, if you will. I don’t expect anyone else to deal with it. I would expect the same courtesy from other people and their fears.
As an aside, I was once at an outdoor party where someone I didn’t know was going on and on about how many bees there were and how my friends (who were throwing said party) should really do something about them lest someone be stung. I finally told her there was plenty of people, food and alcohol inside the house so she should probably mosey in there if being outside was too scary for her. She left shortly thereafter. All was good after that.
A good host makes reasonable accommodations for their guests. We have two large, friendly dogs. When we have people over we allow our guests to make the call if they would like the dogs out in the yard, or in the home with us. That is reasonable. A good guest accepts that in going to the home of another they may be exposed to concepts, foods, drinks, or experiences that may not be entirely tailored to suit their every whim. These are basic social skills people.
Well, sticking to your hypothetical, if the host knew I would be so irrational about a calm dog then yeah, it’d be nice if he’d warned me. In the real world, I love dogs and think breed is completely irrelevant. I care about how well-behaved a dog is.
I DO think it’s nice if guests are told about any animal being around, in case of allergies at least.
I have a macaw. A few years ago, when we started having family holidays at our place, we learned that my sister-in-law is ornithophobic*. I’ve had the bird for 20 years, and this is the first real bird-phobe I’ve dealt with**.
A lot of people are somewhat afraid of my bird - he is large, loud, and has a hellacious beak. However, since he is reasonably contained (he sits on his cage, doesn’t get out and wander much), it’s not generally a problem. If we have large numbers of strangers over, we will close the cage. We strongly discourage people from trying to pet him, as he’s not very social and will bite. If you’re stupid enough to stick your fingers in his cage and get bitten, don’t whine to me. (We do keep an eye out when people we don’t know are over.)
In my SIL’s case, it was a problem because the bird lives in the dining room, where everything was set up for dinner. Since we didn’t know ahead of time, we didn’t really have any options. (Large bird = large cage, not easily moved.) She just avoided the dining room until mealtime, so it took us a while to find out what was going on. Once we did, we covered the bird’s cage so she didn’t have to look at him. That was the best we could do at the time.
Since then, we clear space in another room, so that we can remove the bird for the day. As I said earlier, I’m reasonably willing to accommodate polite requests for my guests’ comfort.
But I should warn every person that anyone might ever invite over that I have a bird, because the occasional individual has an irrational fear? That’s just idiotic. If someone has a phobia, it is their problem, not mine. Am I supposed to cook vegan every meal also, in case a wandering vegan drops in without warning?
*This had never been mentioned in the several decades she’s been a member of the famiily. She was embarrassed about it, since she realizes it is a completely irrational fear, so she’d never told anyone but bro-in-law.
**Now, there may have been other phobics in my house, but ya know what? If they don’t tell me about a problem, then I can’t do anything about it. That’s their fault, not mine.
You should ask if people are okay with dogs before you take your dog off its leash around them.
On the other hand, people should be adults about well-behaved dogs.
I love all dogs. Certain breeds I wouldn’t want as a pet. Pitbulls, Rottweilers and Dobermans. Just because they are more likely to snap for no particular reason. The real scary part though is that all dogs can apparently snap for no reason. Its just that the other breeds I’ve mentioned have a higher chance of snapping than say Yo-Yo the Yorkie.
I’ve met some great pit-bulls though. Myself I’d be a little more concerned if I came to a social event and a pittbull was present , but after awhile If I see that its friendly calm and acting like any other dog my fears would quickly subside. Whats the worse that can happen it decides to attack you, like any other dog ? Ok then the group of people your with I’m sure will quickly come to your aid. If it happened, It likely wouldn’t.
I suggest though since you have a real fear of them find out before going to a friends place if they have dogs and if their Pitbulls, you should probably avoid the event. I don’t think the onus is on them to lock them away for the night because your heading over. A socialized dog likes nothing more when more people are added to its pack. To hear a lot of people having a good time in the back yard while its lock up in the garage would drive any dog bat shit crazy.
As an owner I would say sorry Killer ain’t getting locked up because your coming over.
Right. I like pitbulls and I know that the ones that are socialized properly are friendly so I wouldn’t mind having one around. However, even if I didn’t like pitbulls, I would not be worried in a group setting like that.
No. The dog has a reason. It might be a dumb reason. It might be a bad reason. It might be a reason that only makes sense in their little dog brains. But if the dog bites someone, it has reason.
Irrationality tends to go both ways on this issue, people who love them will tend to explain away attacks and risk, people who are scared of them will overattend to them.
This isnt a particularly rare or even irrational fear to have for people who dont have a lot of contact with dogs. But the thread makes it pretty clear how it will go in practise with most dog owners.
Otara
New question: I went to a BBQ. Someone had an unleashed, fullgrown velociraptor. Is asking the velociraptor’s owner to remove said velociraptor morally justified?
Which side actually knows more about the subject - the dog owners or the dog fearers? Which side is basing its arguments on its ignorance of the subject? Why should people who are familiar with dogs be impressed by the fears of someone who isn’t familiar with them? Why should people who don’t have much contact with dogs expect that their feelings will override the experiences of people who know dogs well?
Substitute guns, motorcycles, The Internet, alcohol, aeroplanes - do you listen to experts or to people who don’t know have any contact with it and are just afraid?
No one in this thread has said that all dogs are harmless all the time. The specific dog in the OP was a perfectly well-behaved creature. There’s no getting around the fact that, in the OP, the one being irrational was the one acting like the dog was a landmine. A landmine filled with velociraptors.
And on it goes.
Otara