Sanders does better in the caucuses. What if Sanders had won the pledged delegates, but hillary ended up winning 1 million more votes in the primary because Sanders won the caucuses overwhelmingly?
On one hand in the Senate the number of votes do not matter. A senator who wins in California has more votes than one from Montana, but both have equal power. At the same time, wouldn’t hillary winning more votes make her the more popular nominee?
I know this outcome won’t possible this election cycle, but how wide people react to it?
The fact is that such could only happen in the context of some meteor strike which totally disqualified Clinton as a contender. If that strike occurred even a narrow Clinton lead in pledged delegates would not be enough: the supers would be running to switch too. She’d likely be withdrawing herself. (Thinking a stroke that leaves her unable to speak and drooling.)
With confusion and strife. There may be no way to convince people that political parties are NOT branches of the government, and that therefore they may make any rules they like for choosing a candidate. “The will of the people” is only one factor in such choices–but you’ll never get the majority of Americans to accept that.
Other than that: you shouldn’t make threads singling out wide people. They have feelings, too!
j/k
Eh, this happened in 2008. Hillary lost the primary despite having more total votes.
None of the doomsday scenarios described here happened. Hillary understandably seemed kinda pissed off about it, but beyond that, no one cared and it did no harm to Obama’s election chances. And indeed, it seems no one really even remembers it, if they were aware of it at all.
Correct. Saying that the number of votes matter more than the number of delegates is just saying caucus states don’t count. So then why bother to run caucuses at all.
Gosh - I can’t believe I even Chris Matthews seems to forget this.
Since when has this (either Sander’s Supporters Fantasies - or the supposed super unfair complicated anti trump method) been unfair?
Every website (I think - ok most to be safe) - keeps track of the delegate counts - says the number of delegates that are needed to win.
I know that people whine and complain about Gore winning the popular vote, but geeze - there are reasons these rules exist.
And people never seem to complain when things work out in their favor.
The Parties have certain rules in place to give bonus delegates based on things like when they hold the election - so that everyone doesn’t hold their contest at once.
They give delegates to people like super delegates - who totally where in Hillaries Pocket early on in 2008, but switched to Obama after he was winning more regular delegates (technically it was Hillary Herself who moved to suspend the voting and elect Obama by acclimation - so I don’t know if there is a real count anyway).
And States like Michigan and Florida who were penalized for their rule breaking - it’s much easier to have the parties decide these things.
I Bernie Sander’s doesn’t like the democratic rules - he shouldn’t run as a democrat. And same with trump.
People seem to think this is “undemocratic” we do not live in a pure democracy. We don’t vote on everything - so why the election seems to bother people with stuff like this is beyond me.
Oh - and caucuses do count - where do people get these ideas?
ETA: oops - sorry OldGuy, I get what you mean now - ignore that last sentence (in case you were reading anyway )
She only wins the popular vote if Michigan is included, where Obama did not appear on the ballot. You remember the deal with Florida and Michigan, right?
And in the hypothetical Hillary only wins the popular vote if Sander’s wins were disproportionately caucus states.
That’s my point. If you toss out the rules, and just look at the popular vote, Hillary won in 2008. But no one cared then, to the point that no one really remembers it, and so it seems kinda silly to think the same argument today would cause the kind of disruption other posters are positing.
If Hillary won the popular vote again, but lost the delegate count, there’d be a weeks worth of hurt feelings and drama, and then everyone would move onto the General election with Sanders as the nominee.
)