I admire you for defeating cancer, not for a fucking bike race!

The BBQ Pit
21

Miller? Spooje? The thing that’s cool about you two guys is that you’re sufficiently aware to be able to see beyond the “media spin” and assess things on their own merits. True lovers of road racing are actually a bit sad that Lance Armstrong doesn’t have stronger competition in some respects. It’s not Lance’s fault of course - such is the fate of history. But yes, the term ‘hero’ is one which is often liberally abused and overused in all the world’s media.

A quick example? Legendary swimmer Keiran Perkins after being the first man to win back to back Olympic 1500m titles in 1996. Predictably, the Australian media went awash with superlatives and the ‘hero’ tag got used left right and centre, but Perkins himself? He’s a really intelligent deep thinking guy - and after about two years of it he truly started taking shots at the media. He kept pointing to true heroes, bushfire volunteers and the like, and eventually he got the message across. Basically, the tag mortified Perkins with embarassment.

22

Two. Fucking. Words.

PAIN THRESHOLD

Lance can go deeper, can suffer more than any rider in the pack. Not unlikely, this has something to do with the suffering he’s already endured whilst off a bicycle.

As for your definition of “real” sports, well, what can I say. Certainly, your average 400 lb., 75 IQ American football player isn’t a “true American Hero”, I hope.

23

GTF. The guy is incredible. He is a fucking exemplary specimen of the human species. He is possibly the fitest person on the planet, and is WAY more of an athlete than most sports people I have heard of. he has done almost 4000 miles in 3 weeks on a bicycle, fastwer than any of the other competitors 4 times in a row. And he is very modest about it.

If you ever get the chance to see a documentary about him, sit down, watch, and learn something.

24

I just picked up a copy of the San Jose Mercury News and there was columnist Skip Bayless weighing in on whether or not Lance Armstrong is an athlete.

Is there ANY sports columnist in the U.S. who decided to sit this one out?

25

I read an artical in Sunday’s Denver Post that said there is a strong correlation between his beating cancer & his bike riding. A small excerpt:

26

Hmm a very loaded word these days, and one which Lance has never used nor encouraged.

If he is a hero, it is for all of the fundraising he and his foundation do in the fight against cancer. If he is a hero, it is because of all of the times he stops what is is doing to talk with people battling cancer who just want a word with him (even though he has 0.0% free time). If he is a hero, it is because of all the charitible things he does quietly when the press and media are not around. The amazingly athletic things he does on the bike (or things others do on the baseball field, football pitch or pool ect. . . ~ you get the idea) does not make him a hero.

If anything, the inspiration which he provides to those facing a battle bigger then any sports event makes him a hero.

I notice the OP has fled for the hills- probably safe in a cave or under a bridge. . . :wink:

Oh, and Allez Lance!

:slight_smile:

27

Even if you do not believe Lance Armstrong is a hero, our very own Green Bean certainly is one.

28

I think about what it would be like to ride a bike for three weeks, averaging more than 1,300 miles per week, or 185 miles per day. I think about the lactic acid pains that would hit my pathetic, out-of-shape legs around 25 miles or so. I cringe. I think, “Lance Armstrong is a hell of a guy.”

29

OK. I think Superdude had a point that he phrased REALLLLLLLY BADLY. It’s a point that I’m often loathe to make. And if this is NOT his point, it’s mine.
Lance Armstrong is an athlete who excels in his sport, as well as a man who defeated cancer.

This does not make him an American Hero.

Just like nine guys in a coal mine aren’t American Heroes.

Just like Mr.Edible Underwear Maker isn’t an American Hero.

Like others have said, the word Hero is thrown around much too much in today’s world, when it really should be reserved for those who ARE, you know…people who defend the country or save lives, or rescue people from burning fucking office buildings.

30

You admire him for beating cancer?

Why?

It’s not like he had much of a choice, is it? It’s also not like he had much to do with it, beyond enduring. Admire the Doctors and researchers that developed the techniques, and drugs that gave Armstrong a chance at life.

But, don’t admire him for beating cancer. That’s the luck of the draw. Lots of good and admirable men who were not so lucky, but wanted and tried their best to survive, did not. Armstrong is not better than them or necessarily tried harder, or did anything that the others did not do. He was just lucky.

There’s little to admire in it. Do you admire me for fighting off swimmer’s ear last week?

On the other hand, as a cyclist, Lance Armstrong took a weakened and destroyed body, and basically started over completely from scratch. Through an act of sustained will that few could possibly equal, he remodeled that body into a world class athletes.

That is in and of itself worthy of admiration. What is more worthy is how he gives back, and the hope he provides to those in Cancer wards. Hope there is often a precious commodity.

But when Lance rides and endures on my tv, I think of the tvs in the cancer wards across the country showing the same picture. I think of the people who have lost body parts or had their insides scooped out like melons while a slow drip of poison kills both them and the cancer with the hope that it will be the cancer that dies first.

I think of the message that is being sent.

Endure!

I can think of little that is more admirable.

31

I think your interpretation is far too charitable, jarbabyj. Others have already conceded that “hero” might be a bit much, thought the term is open for debate.

Superdude wasn’t merely discussing the “hero” angle, though. He managed to to say:[ul]
[li]That said, however, who gives a tin shit about you being able to ride a bike? Which is simply a shot about cycling (more on that later;[/li][li] I’m really getting sick and tired of you being labeled an American Hero because of your ability to navigate on your bike. This one shows his inability to grasp that the fight with cancer just might have something to do with the admiration he receives;[/li][li]**I’m tired of stories about your heroism and such taking up valuable airtime on shows designed for REAL sports. ** A variant of “only popular American sports are REAL sports”; and[/li][li]**I can think of NO correlation between your beating cancer and your ability to ride a bicycle for long distances. ** An argument others have taken care of.[/li][/ul]
Hero is overused. But it wasn’t overused by Lance Armstrong, the target of the rant. And childish shots about “real sports” don’t exactly advance the argument.

32

Jarbabyj, your point is correct, in my opinion and seems to be the consesus in this thread. As has been said, Lance himself rejects the hero label.

Superdude, in a moment of lunacy, said that he has no admiration for Lance winning the TdF. That is simply asinine.

Haj

33

I notice that no one ever calls Tom Green a hero for defeating cancer. At least, not that I’ve heard. :slight_smile:

34

That’s because not everyone was rooting for Tom. . . .

:wink:

Just kidding, but jeese after Freddie Got Fingered he deserved a series of painful boils or something similar.

35

No one was rooting for Tom Green.

36

Hmmm, having ridden time trials, road races, grass track, cyclo-cross, and mountain bike events over twenty or more years, all I can say is…

Superdude

You do not have the experience to make any hint that cycling is not a ‘real sport’

Every serious cyclist has crashed, climbed back aboard and continued, every such rider will have gone through dehydration, hunger knock(runners call it ‘the wall’), suffered injury, boils, sunstroke, near frostbite, etc.

In the face of that, fitness has to be maintained, willpower strengthened, self-belief reinforced, optimism topped up, the bad days far outnumber the good days when you race.

What part do you not see as sport, no risk ? Sorry but riding in a downhill bunch at anything up to 70mph bumping shoulders and protected only by a thin layer of lycra and one’s own skill from serious injury or death, seems risky enough to mem, add to that mix trying to dodge the traffic too.

Fitness ? This is very subjective, but not many sports can boast athletes whose power output can be around 400Watts for over and hour, and in excess of 1500Watts in specialist sprint events.

As for not being a hero, the same can be said of just about any athlete in almost any sport, since sport is an essentially self satisfying thing, so why single out one exponent of one sport ?

I think he should not be labelled as American hero, since America until recently has been pretty unfriendly cycling territory in a land where even the pedestrian is relegated to a position somewhat lower than the car.
To my mind Lance Armstrong has succeeded despite being American, he has succeeded in the hardest arena of all, where being American brings you absolutely no credibility whatsoever, he has earned his respect in Europe, and not too many athletes manage that at all.

37

:rolleyes:

Right. Because if someone isn’t funny or entertaining to YOU, it’s ok if they die of Cancer. I’m sure Tom’s mom, dad, brother, best friend and fiance at the time were rooting for him pretty hard.

J

38

You know something? I reckon “Superdude” is reading this and has decided (rather wisely I think) not to contribute any more fuel to the fire as it were, and I can’t blame him. If he came back in and tried to justify his position once more, he’d only get ANOTHER 40 posts saying much the same thing, so in many respects it’s probably best that he’s kept a low profile.

Hopefully, “Superdude” if you’re reading this? All I ask of you is merely this - please soak up some of the insights provided in this thread. You’re appreciation of sport in general will increase, as well your understanding of America’s place in the world.

39

Quite frankly, I don’t really recall anyone actually referring to Lance as a hero. I hate to do this, but, umm, cite?

40

After watching a smirking thug who plays for the 6’ers get 12 out of 14 charges dropped against him on TV last night, LA just went up another notch as a “hero” in my book.