I am an idiot.

The BBQ Pit
1

First the story:

Well, another school-sponsored religion in a public school issue. This time they called it “Prayer at the Pole,” I believe. So, being the politically obsessed out-spoken atheist that I am, I got up in arms about it and I decided to protest.

It wasn’t my idea, though, as if that matters. A Buddhist friend suggested that we meditate to see if they would accept other faiths. So he, a Christian friend (I hate referring to people by their religions alone, but oh well) and I headed off to attempt to meditate.

We sat down cross-legged outside of the circle and closed our eyes. (I’d been interested in Buddhism for some time, still researching into it, and this somehow seemed like a good time to start actually thinking about it) Only one problem: the circle got bigger, and soon we were inside of it.

So when it’s over, we get up, leave, go along with our lives, etc, until throughout the rest of the day people yell at us.

None of us meant any disrespect at all, but we obviously came off that way, and me being the only “famous” atheist at our school really hampered our counter-arguments that it was “in the name of tolerance”, “you can pray all you want, we just don’t want it enforced by the school,” and so on. So basically everyone, friends and enemies alike, got mad at me and the people who joined me. I can elaborate more on why I did it and why it seemed good at the time, but right now I feel like hitting myself in the forehead with a sledgehammer.

I now realize it was a very stupid thing to do because no one sees our point of view, and plus it was just stupid in general.

Now I’d like to explain why this is in The Pit:

Because I’m a con-founded weasel turd who has no business even speaking because I can’t learn to think before I do. Stupid pleasant mother pheasant plucker!

Okay, I’ll crawl back into my hole now.

2

Would it be too embarrassing for you to elaborate on this more? I don’t see anything wrong with what you did, or why it would be offensive to anyone who wanted people to be able to pray publicly.

3

That’s all we actually did. We didn’t say anything at all to disrupt it, but somehow all the people who were angry at us said we disrupted it (some of whom who weren’t even there…). Some people think the intent was to disrupt and to just be anti-Christian, and I guess that’s why they’re so angry. But even the people I explain it to can’t grasp the reasoning. Of course, I’m not the most eloquent debator, and can hardly ever get my point across, but that’s just the start.

Perhaps it’s that they think we were making fun of them and their intent. They don’t seem to realize that school-sponsored religion is kind of oppressive, in a way.

One of my friends’ theories is that it was my presence that infuriated them. (Me being an atheist and all, a type of person they have not been exposed to often, and I haven’t done well enough to get the name in good standing)

What else would you like me to elaborate on? It wouldn’t be embarrassing, it kind of helps to vent this out here to people who might understand a bit more.

BTW, all uses of the pronoun “they” constitute people who are angry at me.

4

Well from what you’ve said it doesn’t seem that dumb to me. Just because other people don’t agree with you does not make them right.

Also is everyone in the school being sent to this “Prayer at the Pole” thing or is it just for those who want to go?

Try talking to people about it when they’re on their own. You’re more likely to get you point across when there’s less of a group mentallity.

5

It was voluntary, but encouraged by the school by way of announcements and posters. So technically it was school*-sponsored*, but not mandatory. There were teachers at the event.

I’m making my basis of me being an idiot on the fact that several of my more rational friends are disappointed with me for it, and that I didn’t help any cause at all by the action.

Problem is, only the people who know me will listen to a five minute speech on the subject, and then they still don’t agree. So I’m back at square one. The people who don’t know me won’t let me finish a sentence before yelling, and then ending their speeches without an ounce of fact and then their friends all go “Ooh, snap!”

I hate high school… :rolleyes:

6

Sorry about that, Jello. It’s not always easy making a stand for what you believe. :frowning:

7

Nope. Especially when your parents are way on the other side of the fence. “So, JC, did you make fun of any Christians today?” after they stumbled upon a thread I started a while back about the difference between a sect and a denomination.

BTW, yojimbo, love your sig. I also like another of Gandhi’s quotes.

Journalist: Mr. Gandhi, what do you think of modern civilization?

Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

Well, here I am, hijacking my own thread just a few posts into it…

8

Is the school actually sponsoring the posters? Or are they simply saying that “such-and-such a student organization has permission to put posters up”? Many university organizations are religiously themed without being condoned by the university -EXCEPT- insofar as they must obey university guidelines with regards to all student organizations.

Also, were the announcements in with a group of extra-curricular activity announcements, or were they given special treatment?

About this “Prayer at the Pole” thing, is it a certain Christian sect? Were they welcoming of all religions? Did they believe that you were mocking them by meditating? Did they doubt your sincerity?

The first amendment says

As long as all groups have an equal right to do this, I would say that this “Pole” group has a right to assemble peaceably, which they seem to have done. I also see nothing wrong with what you did, if you were truly meditating and not mocking them. Did they express disapproval of your Buddhist friend’s prayers?

Sometimes you will earn the disapproval of others when you do what you believe to be right. That doesn’t make you an idiot, and it doesn’t mean you should stop doing these sorts of things. I believe you probably make a better point with sincerity. If you were sincere, then it is not for these other people to doubt that.

9

Jello, personally I’m really confused about what exactly happened. Was it a rally for Christian concerns, or was it a ‘prayer’ for something else. From your posts, I kind of get the feeling that you’re trying to avoid specifics for some reason. That’s fine, but if you are looking for comments about the morality of the situation, then specifics of what exactly happened are neccesary.

10

The students, if they are in a Christian Club at school are supported by the school. However almost any club can be supported by the school. And these clubs have every right to advertise their meetings/events/whatever. It’s no different than the Key Club, or the Black Student Union, or Latinos Unidos.
They were probably offended, Jello, because it seemed you were mocking them. There are plenty times to do self-meditation. Hell, form a Buddhist Club, get a teacher to sponsor you, and advertise your meditation times. But it is very disrespectful of other’s beliefs to infringe on their prayer circle like that. It doesn’t matter if you believe in the diety they are praying too. They have every right to do it. And of course, you have right to start a meditating circle in the vincinity of the praying. However, maybe it would be more prudent, and accomplish more, if you work through the appropriate channels, instead of trying to upset and offend the Christians. No matter how much fun it was.
Nobody was in the wrong.The school didn’t do anything wrong. You didn’t do anything wrong. However, it would appear to them that you were being disrespectful. You would not appreciate it if a bunch of Christians walked up behind you during a heated debate on Evolution and began to pray feverently. I doubt they would appreciate you doing the same thing to them. No matter what, you must respect other’s personal beliefs and space. Whether or not they extend you the same courtesy is a non-issue. Lead by example.

11

What a bringdown Jello! Your school (if it is public) is in major violation of the law. Any announcement of prayer over the public address system is an inappropriate use of federal property.

Much worse is the intolerant attitudes of your family and fellow students. The inability to embrace people of other beliefs is the hallmark of shallow minds and insincere faith.

If the pattern of harassment continues you may need to file a suit against your school. I am sure the ACLU would jump at the chance to press your case.

You did nothing wrong at all. Your meditation is in no way any different from the prayer that was going on at the flag pole. You are surrounded by a bunch of small minded people and are being persecuted for being different, that’s all, just being different. Be strong in your convictions, they must serve you for the rest of your life. It may seem difficult to keep them right now, but allowing yourself to be bullied by cowards will never do you any good.

Saddest of all is the attitude of your parents, their inability to love you for who you are contradicts everything that their own religion preaches. Such hypocrasy is evil and wrong.

Please understand that you have friends here on the boards and let us know what happens.

12

Well…I’m not exactly clear on what happened here.

If the school announced the prayer event in the same manner (and with the same level of importance) as they announce the chess club, or the Science Fiction Club Breakfast, or what have you, I don’t think there is anything out of line.

It sounds like people jumped to conclusions. Which I can see happening.

I do notice one line from the OP, that has me curious:

So, in other words, you were (for lack of a better term) kinda “praying” that they’d change themselves? (Or you were assuming that they were not “accepting” of other faiths?) What does “accepting” mean, exactly, anyway? Were all the people at this event so in need of your “meditation”? Do you know what was in each and every one of their hearts?

I can see people getting ticked off. If some fundamental Christians camped out at an Evolution event, and silently “prayed” that the people at the event would change their ways, some feathers would definitely be ruffled. (Like pepperlandgirl pointed out.) Is there any real difference between these two things?

I’m not trying to make you feel bad. (And I do believe that many people - Christian or otherwise, need to be more “accepting”.) But I think that people assumed things about why you were there. And I think with your history of being so outspoken, that it was almost inevitable that they would do that.

13

If this is the same thing that went on at my school (and I imagine it was), I was upset about missing it. I wanted to go.
We had posters put up and it may have been in the announcements. Our school allows organizations to put posters up and announcements to be made. It’s pretty straightforward, really. These people were doing something you didn’t like, and rather than protest about it in a respectful way, you disrupted their activity, even if the disruption was unintentional. Nice try. Next time write an editorial in the newspaper or hold up a sign or something. I agree with PLG in that you should form a club, if that’s what you want to do. I don’t know what the heck Zenster is talking about.

14

They just did a prayer at the pole at my school last week, what school do you go to? I go to Romulus High.

15

Well, to clear up confusion on the matter, the Even is called “See you at the Pole.” It is a national Christian Youth event, that happens at schools across the country. Basically, as the posters say, it is a “gathering of students from all faiths to pray for school, god, and country.”

It happened at my school, and, personally, from what you’ve written, I don’t see why you were offended by it. What happened? Before school started, a number of students and teachers (myself included) gathered around a pole, held hands in a circle, and said a few prayers. This wasn’t a Christian things, there were also a number of students from other faiths, including Jewish. After we were done, we all walked back to the school and went to classes.

From the OP, I don’t see why you were mad about this. True, posters were hung up, and announcements were made, but it wasn’t school sponsered. The people organizing it were students from our Campus Fellowship Club, which is a religious discussion group. We didn’t gather and say “Down with other religions, Jesus rules,” we just said a few prayers, and went on our way. No one had to go, it was completely voluntary. From what you said, it seems that you were protesting a school-influenced, mandatory prayer meeting, when what you actually did was protested the belief system of a number of students.

This is just what I’ve picked up on from reading, I’m open to explanation.

16

Same thing happens at my school. Students gather before school hours and pray. Kids of many faiths. Yep they advertise but the school does not sponsor it ( give the administrators more credit, they don’t want to violate the supreme courts decision and be sued anymore than anyone else does)Ours lasted about 15 minutes. I was not even aware that the “See you at the pole” was in session until it was nearly over. It was a quick and quiet ceremony before official school hours that offended no one that I am aware of. The only way to my way of thinking that you could make a spectacle of it would be to protest it in some way as it was happening.

17

One thing I’d like cleared up (sorry if it clear to others):

Was this a meeting of a Christian Club, or an “optional” entire-school thing?

In my mind, this makes all the difference.

18

LaurAnge-

This is most definitely a Christian Club thing, even though the school let them hang up posters and such. The club people did all the organization and announcing, and it was publicized just like any other club.

19

Did I miss something?
When did all the flagpoles convert to Christianity? Do they all belong to the same sect? Or are the poles in the south Baptists(I’m trying to envision 20 ft. tall poles being lowered into the water), and the ones in the north Episcopalian?
Are the Jewish poles the ones where the flag stays wrapped around the pole?

20

Yes.