Instead of asking everyone to buy useless stuff (when only a portion of the proceeds go toward the school) and asking 30 parents to organize and staff a book fair, why don’t you all do what our school does - when people sign their kid up for the field trip or science fair, they’re given the opportunity to sponsor a “scholarship” for a child whose family can’t afford the fee? No profits given to companies that make money off of school fundraisers, no need to take families away from home (or whatever other obligations they have) in the evening, no griping from people who don’t want to volunteer or people who feel like they’re always the ones volunteering, and everyone gets to go on the field trip! Win win win!
If you can actually get people to kick in for the scholarships, then sure, it’s win/win/win. But I’ve never seen stuff like that work out well–a handful of people will donate and gladly, but the vast majority will have a billion excuses about why they can’t afford to pay for other people’s kids. You know who that handful who will donate are? That’s right, the same damn people who would be working the fundraiser while everyone else sits on their ass and reaps the benefits.
And, of course, without fundraisers to help pay for the trip the portion each child is expected to pay is significantly higher, so the “scholarships” have to be higher, so you have even fewer people who are willing to come up off the extra money. In a school where people can’t be arsed to send in a batch of cookies or some stuff for a silent auction basket, it’s just not going to work.
They know me very well. First of all, my husband and I are up there all the time: we have one child in SPED and the other is a type 1 diabetic, so we’re always there for conferences, insulin replacement, etc. Both my husband and I have been involved with our children’s education since day one.
I am not worked up about it. I was just stating what I perceive to be true. It could be something much more mundane: but in talking to other parents in my situation who have also been snubbed by the PTA, it’s reinforced my beliefs. We are very fortunate to have a great school system with wonderful teachers, and that’s why I stay.
You’ve annoyed me by defending what was (IMO) a dumb (and rude) post of your own, rather than just owning up to the fact that it was dumb (and rude). Or even just letting it drop. And you then compounded that by not addressing what I actually said when making your defense.
Reading comprehension, luv. The post to which you originally responded was all of 2 lines. I’m not sure how it’s possible to have read them and yet still posted what you have.
Except for one thing – your response assumed malice on the part of PTA members (albeit of a watered down type) rather than stupidity. Or does latent retribution (i.e., she thinks we’re elitist snobs, so she can’t join our PTA games) not count as malice? And you not only assumed it, but then you endorsed it – “Frankly, I wouldn’t want someone around who thought so little of me either”. As I asked before, who are the adults in these situations?
But you’re right about one thing – this is MPSIMS. I’ll drop it now, with my apologies to Juliana for dragging you into it and to everyone else for the digression.
JFC, dude. . .
Your post was a lot dumber than hers. You tried to go for sanctimonious “Oh, so it’s not really about the children, now is it?” bullshit. If I was in a group that volunteered and someone outside the group obviously didn’t like us (and trust me, you can often tell when that’s the case), no, I wouldn’t want to have her in the group.
Some PTA groups suck. Some PTA groups are great. All Diosa did was point out that perhaps the sneering tone she used when talking about her PTA was coming across in her interactions with them.
Oh, wait, I forgot. PTA people are supposed to be as perfect as Jesus. And when they’re not, they’re all horrible people.
You’re correct that some of the money (maybe even most) from the gift wrap sales and book fairs does not go to the school. I was thinking specifically of the fun fairs and movie nights when I said all of the money raised goes to the school, but I didn’t say that, and statement as I wrote it was incorrect. Sorry about that.
Our PTA does offer a scholarship option for field trips, but gets very few donations. Certainly not enough to generate the kind of money we get from the fundraisers. And, as CrazyCatLady notes, the families who tend to donate money are the same ones who tend to volunteer their time, so we end up dipping twice from the same well rather than making the pool bigger.
The PTA has also discussed a broader donation program in place of fundraisers like the gift wrap sale, but the opinions so far have leaned heavily against it. People make the argument that they’d prefer to donate their time instead of their money, but most don’t follow through when asked to volunteer.
And we’re in a fairly affluent part of the state, where I would expect parents to have more disposable income/time. I imagine the situation is much worse for schools in less affluent areas.
Heh, I agree with you on this: kids vary in personality as much as grown-ups do. With kids, it is often easier to see the variations, because they have not yet learned to hide their thoughts behind a mask of social propriety.
For some kids, they are a delight as a result - their essential goodness shines through the more clearly. For others, it can be the reverse. I am heartened by the fact that far more are essentially good (if often nakedly selfish on occasion!) than nasty.
what weird school is your child attending that field trips and party help aren’t considered volunteer work?
I help for two hours once a week. I was happy I could provide the help for the first time this year. I really enjoy coaching the kindergartners with their letters and don’t mind the copy room work for my other child’s teacher. However, the first day I volunteered for the 2nd grade teacher, there were a couple of other volunteers in the copy room. One of them quized me for several minutes about my volunteer time. She was quite disgusted that I didn’t live at the school since my children were all in school now and I’m a SAHM. She of course was a grandmother of a student who drove 30 minutes a day to spend hours at the school helping out. I don’t play those games though and just rolled my eyes at her when she left the room.
I give the time I’m willing and able to give and no more. It sounds like you do the same. Just roll your eyes at the crazies. That’s what the rest of us do. 
That was my way of being polite while letting it go. But OK, I’ll be more direct:
I think you’re being a twit, I don’t think I have anything else to say about this, and I don’t particularly want to devote any more effort here. Although I will respond to one other post (in part and with snark) before dropping it:
Which, by my reading of this thread, is quite an accomplishment. Yay me!
And I have to ask: are you and DiosaBellissima in competition for a lack-of-reading-comprehension award? 'Cuz you’re pretty far from what I actually said. But, hell, I should be supportive…Go for the gold! You can do it!
Do we have some problem from before I’m not aware of? Because I really am having trouble wrapping my head around someone getting so worked up over a message board post that they disagreed with, but wasn’t even intended to be hostile and particularly wasn’t directed at them (but hey, maybe it’s because I’m such a twit, right?).
Your reaction has been way out of proportion to any of the original comments. Calm the fuck down, homie.
When I was PTA vice president, one rule I put forth was that every activity had to pass the following litmus test:
Does the activity either 1. Support school academics, 2. Directly help the teachers or 3. Build community within the school.
If it met one of those criteria we moved forward with it. Catergory 3 was actually really important- picnics, hallowe’en parties etc. Our school was not a neighborhood school, in that kids were pulled from many parts of town. Building community was important for the kids and the families to get to know each other. Plus, we had a fair amount of transient population and the kids did better if they were integrated and welcomed into the school as son as possible.
Did our school need clerical help- hell yeah. Photocopying newsletters, help with bulletin boards, other stuff. We’re not a poor school, but not a flush one either. We really needed the help.
PTA paid for every single bus for field trips and most admission costs. This came directly from our fundraisers. We had no profit book sales (buy one book get one free) so kids could have books over the summer. We bought every new kindergartner a book and little supplies when they came for registration. We ran science fairs and had parents help kids after school whose parents couldn’t help them at home for whatever reason. We had architects put a group together for “Canstruction” (look it up; it’s way cool).
My kids benefited from other parents and other kids benefited from my volunteering.
Were we perfect- no. The atmosphere was kind of toxic when my oldest started kindergarten. A small group of us worked hard and tried to change the mentality. We held PTA meetings in some of the public assistance housing and neighborhood churches, plus provided drivers so the less affluent members of our school could come and feel welcome at the meetings. One of these members ended up spearheading a healthy school initiative that become a model district-wide.
We changed the tone of the PTA and got a lot of really good work done.
Anyway, my point here is that volunteering can go way beyond bake sales and “Martha Stewart on meth” moms. But you may be surprised what those wrapping paper and cookie sales are actually funding. It can go way beyond goody bags at halloween.
[moderating]
This is definitely over the top for MPSIMS. No warning issued this time, but it needs to stop immediately.
[/moderating]
Yeah, I thought it was really weird too.
Well, part of the problem might be the phrasing there. “4 hours” sounds like a LOT to any busy parent. I’d bet you’d end up getting way more total hours covered if you only asked for 2 hours of their time.
Kind of goes back to my post above. If the message is “you can only volunteer if you do a lot,” then you’ll ONLY get the people who are willing to do a lot instead of those people plus all the people who are only able to do a little.
I’ve done alot of volunteering at my childrens’ elementary school.
One thing I am grateful for is how well I got to know all the kids and who the kids are with squirrels in their pants all day long or who are going to be the first kid arrested after graduation, if they make it to graduation.
Another thing that I noticed is how much the teachers fob off onto the volunteering parent. One hour volunteer time would be stretched to four or five, because, hey I had nothing better to do. I did enjoy it, but when you are essentially doing the teachers job and getting great reviews from every teacher you help out and you want to get a job in the school doing lunch lady BS or a para pro, yanno, the job you’ve been doing for free but they won’t let you get paid for it unless you have a degree, you finally go SCREW YOU and your little dog too.
I thoroughly enjoyed all of the class room interaction and seeing how different teachers handle students.
I never made cupcakes or volunteered to be a party mom. I’d rather jump in a box of razor blades.
That could be fun, too…
:eek:
From almost any SDMB post that is school-related, the thing I have realized it what a huge variation there must be in schools. Some people will post that they are not allowed in the school and others are hugely encouraged (even pressured) to volunteer in the classroom. Some kids are inundated with busy-work and others have more creative assignments. And some districts are relying on parents to do secretary work, and for some that just isn’t an issue.
I think we parents get so used to the way our school is run that we think any other way is unusual, unbelievable or just weird. I can’t imagine a PTA that is snobby or Matha-Stewarty, because I have never experienced that,
So let’s just accept that there is huge variation in PTAs and schools in general.
This thread certainly has been a fascinating read. I just hope that if/when I have kids, I’m able to participate how, when, and how much I choose, without being chastised from people on either extreme of the PTA participation spectrum.
I have a question, though. How are fathers treated in this whole shebang? I’d be a stay-at-home dad if little ones come along.
[quote=“DiosaBellissima, post:79, topic:531869”]
First of all, I absolutely do not understand your snarky and rude tone. This is a MPSIMS discussion about a fucking PTA, calm down over there, sparky.[/quote
Seriously? You were snarky with your “forgive me”, so he was snarky back. Your comments were considered obnoxious to him, so he responded back to you in a similar manner. It’s communicating with others 101.
As for his initial point–while I wouldn’t have said it so rudely–I agree with him. The OP stated the facts for discussion, and you twisted them into such a way that she was the bad person in the exchange. This is rude. Imagine if your daughter came home from school complaining about a bully. Would you tell her that it was likely all her fault and that if she were to treat the bully nicer, and not think of him as a bully, then she wouldn’t have any problems with him?
I would suspect the daughter would think you were taking the bully’s side. And I’d think she was right. Just like you took the PTA people’s side. When someone tells you about something bad that happens to them, the worst thing you can do is make it their fault.
I imagine, like everything else, it varies greatly with your location. The PTA president last year was a dad, and he did a great job, Everytime my husband has participated in events, he has been welcomed with open arms.
But that said it is still much more common to have heavy mom participation. Around here many dads take a turn at the pizza booth, or show up on landscaping day. But most don’t attend meetings or get on a committee.