Me too! How much are you willing to pay for good service? Because you know what, it still exists. Of course, a restaraunt with good service costs mucho dinero. And to get quality bank treatment, you need to be a business customer or a rich mofo. But, just like you tell these people in customer service you don’t like, there are other options available!
Yes, this is my point, better stated. Because this attitude seems to pervade everything, everywhere. It seems like everyone is angry and pissed off. I hear it everywhere, too. Practically every conversation I overhear - in the elevator, on the street - is people bitching about their jobs, their bosses, their coworkers, their atmosphere at work.
It’s almost like going thru your day with common courtesy or a willingess to work with others is showing some sign of weakness.
I do feel especially bad for the workers on the low end of the totem pole. Man, when you get a bunch of mid-level people who are chronically pissed of at their job, yet powerless to do anything about it, you have to just know they’re going to take it out on “the little people”. And after months/years of this, everyone is at each other’s throats.
On the other hand, the FedEx guy went out of his way to deliver a package to me yesterday, and I was so grateful to be on the receiving end of good service that I wanted to leap up from my desk and kiss him full on the mouth. With tongue.
That would be expending effort not necessary to maintain employment, and in many cases, advance up what little ladder there is.
Ask him how much he makes, and what his benefits are including vacation, and compare that to the teller at your bank, or the cashier at The Corner Bakery. My UPS driver is chronically happy, and very nice. Having a good life can do that to people.
Look, I HAVE BEEN IN THAT POSITION. I’m not saying it’s a fun place to be. I’m not saying that living in a society that tells you the only way to be a winner is to have shitloads of stuff and money, and then denies you that very thing, for nothing other than arbitrary reasons.
Don’t assume that I have no sympathy. Don’t assume I don’t understand the economic facts.
Being a dick to people for no good reason, when the person you’re dealing with has done nothing to deserve it, is bullshit. Taking out your frustrations, whatever they may be, on others who haven’t done anything to you, is bullshit.
I don’t do that. To the Corner Bakery gal, even though I know she’s going to be bitchy to me. Every. Single. Time. AND I don’t do it to my most annoying client, who insists on special order pens, special order coffee, special order fucking everything. You wanna talk about the economic disparity between me and her? I’m a goddam TEMP, for crissakes. I have NO insurance. NO job security. NO benefits. I just eke by every goddamn month by the grace of god. I make a pittance compared to the clients I serve.
It doesn’t mean it’s okay to be a bitch. Or bitch-y. Or rude. I hate my life right now. I hate the fact that it’s going to take money to get out of it and on to something better. And money is the one goddamn thing I don’t have.
But I can guarantee you that I’m not going to make other people suffer because of that, whether they are economically above me or below me.
As a side not - a whole lot of younger people in the workforce (I’m thinking 25 and under, here) seem to have gained adulthood with the impression that they deserve minimum wage for showing up, and that for doing anything more than the bare minimum required, they SHOULD be paid EXTRA. They DESERVE it.
I know there are still plenty of younger people out there who still have some sort of work ethic, but they are becoming fewer and farther-between.
Unbelieveable. You are not entitled to your customer service job. The person paying you money for your food and rent, however, is entitled to have you do the best job that you are able to do. Either get a job in a different field or suck it the fuck up until you can. That attitude is precisely why this thread started. You sarcastically called yourself selfish. You may want to re-examine that.
I’ve worked customer service. In my business now, I work with clients every day. I totally understand the frustration. I even applaud subtly getting back at asshole customers. There is no call, however, for acting rude and surly with a sense of entitlement to the good customers, the the legions of normal customers and the customers who are having a bit of a shitty day. Even if you don’t like your job. Even if your employer is a dickhead.
I will pay more for good customer service and better quality. The time saved and the lack of irritation on my part more than makes up for the difference in price. In fact, I probably save money in the long run by not buying the wrong thing because the clerk didn’t understand their merchanidise and was unwilling to admit it, spending less time standing around and more time on making money in my business and not having to buy high blood pressure medicine.
Haj
If you did, you’d see there’s no reason for a person to be nice, unless it directly affects their employability. Take the lesson from the companies themselves, who aren’t willing to give extra perks without an expected return.
I think you’re reading more into it than is there. They just don’t care. And no one (or very few), frankly, has given them any reason to. Having been in customer service, I’d think you know the alternate proposition–that customers are assholes–is largely accurate, too. I’m always exceedingly nice to customer service people, just like you, because I’ve been there myself and I sympathize with their position. But, to me, it just seems like there is no reason for them to do more than they have to in order to secure their pay.
And what are you getting out of that? Self-satisfaction?
Erislover:
You and I fundamentally disagree on this issue.
I recognize your point of view and your right to have it. My opinion is that doing a job with common courtesy regardless whatever else may be true, is the right thing to do. You feel differently, and clearly strongly, about the issue. I feel equally strongly, albeit on the other side of the debate.
I doubt you and I will change the other’s opinion. Therefore, I am not going to further debate you or respond to your posts, and assume that we agree to disagree.
Actually, I don’t feel very strongly about the issue. But I do feel that smart employees, either explicitly or implicitly, recognize that extra effort on their part to maintain a pleasant demeanor has no value other than self-satisfaction, which they likely already have and don’t need it sourced from (likely) nameless clientele. Hama wonders where the good workers have gone; I wonder where rewarding good work has gone. My experience, while somewhat limited and obviously anecdotal, shows that rewarding good work is not very common at all. Also, I think it is a little short-sighted to think this is a problem exclusive to the employees. Banks have never, in my life, been in a hurry to care about me in terms of what options I have available and how often or how much I have to pay for those option. They are not there to meet my needs, they are there to meet their needs. After all, other jobs and industries are available. I cannot strike some deal with the grocery store chain to carry the brand of microwave burritos that I like so much on a regular basis, yet this problem is not there just because the manager is an asshole.
The companies and the employees don’t have to care about you. Until they have to, they won’t. Where we differ seems largely whether one of us thinks it is a shame or not. I think it is perfectly understandable, and so I can find no fault with any of the agents in question.
Let me first point out that our situations are quite similiar. We’re both in school, working toward something else, and working crap jobs to pay the bills. But while your attitude it, “This sucks, and I won’t give it any more than that I have to.” Mine is, "If I look on the positive side, I can get more out of it. I have the added bonus that I will make more money if I’m nice (as opposed to $2.50 an hour if I treat my customers badly), but I have also been offered better jobs just from people I serve. And, I meet people who can help me when I do get my degree. While I suppose I can treat people badly, because, Oh my god, I have to work a crappy job, woe is me, I get more out of it if I suck it up and smile. You make your world. If you want to make yours so you are miserable all the time, hey, glad it’s working out for ya. I’ll stick with being my “ditzy paradise”. Apparently we’re going the same direction, only I’m enjoying it.
Not sure why.
I currently live in the United States, and i’ve previously lived for extended periods in Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom. I’ve also holidayed in a few places in Asia, and in western Europe. And i can honestly say that, in most service industries, the service is no better in America than it is anywhere else. And when it is “better,” it’s often as irritating as hell. Like when salespeople keep annoying you after you’ve already told them that you just want to look around.
Even in an area where you might expect service to be better in the United States, it often isn’t. For example, the North American system of tipping suggests that service in restaurants, taxis and other tipping occupations would be better. But i’ve been on both sides of the table (i.e., waiter and customer) and i don’t think the restaurant service is any better in Canada and America than it is in Australia or England.
And in the area where people most often really complain about service, such as dealing with utility companies (gas, electricity, telephone), the post office, and government entities (e.g. tax office), i find the level of service in the United States to be light years behind that of the other English-speaking countries that i’ve lived in.
Interestingly, given the nature of the OP’s rant, one area where i think the service is better in America than in Australia is in banking. In Australia, poll the general public and you’ll probably find that banks are the most hated institution of all.
I’m not saying the American service is especially bad, just that it’s not as comparatively good as some people would like to believe.
I hate giving shitty customer service. I hate it. I work at the box office for the live artist venue on campus, and although we allow some flexibility in exchanging tickets they’ve previously purchased, there are some things we simply cannot do, barred by policy. I hate having to tell people no, they can’t exchange their tickets because they had an accident on the day of the show and can’t attend, because we require 24 hours’ notice. If I could, I’d grant everyone’s request on the spot with a smile. As it is, I have to reject them as politely as I can. I try not to stonewall, but neither is there anything I can do about it. I sympathize, I try to let them know I would if I could…
And some people still get pissed about it.
The other day a lady came to the box office with a ticket for the show from the previous day. She had completely forgotten about the show (even though the day and time was written on the ticket) and wanted to exchange it for a later performance. After the show the ticket is for has ended, we can’t do a damn thing. At all. Especially if it’s the customer’s fault they didn’t attend or notify us they couldn’t (though I didn’t tell her that). I was as sympathetic as I could be–Broadway musical tickets are expensive, and it really sucks seeing that money go to waste.
She got pissed off at me and told me she’d never buy tickets from us again. I’m sure to her, our customer service was shitty. There’s just no helping some people, though.
The really frustrating thing, and one reason I cannot wait for graduation so I can quit this job, is that if, instead of storming off, she had asked for my manager, she very likely would have gotten what she wanted. Our managers break policy all the time, especially to people who aren’t gracious at all, and it drives me batty. Now those customers “know” that the front line of box office salespeople are bullshitting them whenever they say they can’t do something, because the manager did it for them. So what the hell’s the policy for if there’s no point in enforcing the goddamn thing? :mad: I like this job a great deal. I love many of our customers, and I love doing my job. But there are so many fucked-up policies that it’s just frustrating and burnout-inducing.
I feel for you.
If there’s one thing worse than a needlessly rigid policy, it’s a manager who breaks the policy on an ad hoc basis and makes him/herself look like the good cop at the expense of the front-of-house people.
Then, if the front-of-house people try to follow this example and show some flexibility, they are told to stick to the rules. I know that management needs to implement policies that ensure consistency among the workers, but if management then fails to stick by the policy and makes the front-of-house people look bad, then they’re just being fuckers.
The policy, while it makes the front office people look bad, does make sense in a way. The company doesn’t want to exchange tickets, but it does want to make people happy. So it has the front office people stonewall the customers. Most of those customers will storm off and not get their exchanges, saving the company money. The savvy customers will ask for a manager and get their exchange. That costs the company a few bucks, but it makes a few people happy repeat customers, and probably there’s a few new customers to take the place of the pissed-off ones.
I must admit, it seems much nicer working with transactions where people will pay a bit more for good customer service. Granted, they usually expect a more immediate and elaborate response, which can be harrowing, but having a bit more flexibility to do what the customer wants is extremely helpful.
Ah, liberalism at work. Let’s not hurt the little snots’ self-esteem by telling them they’re not performing adequately. After all, they’re entitled to the same reward as their peers, regardless of their performance and results. Why, it would be unfair and intolerant to tell somebody they’re just not up to snuff!
sigh
I’ve been a professional cook for twenty years. I’m damn good at what I do. The money’s not great, but I like the work. But finding good coworkers is a pain these days. Especially among the younger crowd.
However, I’ve noticed a lot of change in the attitudes of customers, too. Any more, it seems that a lot of customers come to restaurants because it offers them an opportunity to feel superior to somebody else. I’ve been treated, more times than I like to recall, as if I’m just some insignificant laborer whose occupation is nowhere near as important as the careers of my customers. And people wonder why I can get bitchy at times?
I can say this in support of sticking to “policy”. Policy is like the menu in a restaurant. I’m a firm believer in going to a restaurant an choosing from the menu provided by that restaurant. Here’s what happens all the time: a customer doesn’t see what he wants, and so asks the waitress for something else. So the waitress asks the cook if he can make it. The cook, having previously worked in a restaurant that served that kind of thing, says, “Sure.”. The customer is happy. Then that customer comes back a few days later and wants to order the same thing he had last time. However, this time I’m on duty in the kitchen, and I have never made the dish he’s asking for, simply due to the fact that I have never worked in that particular type of restaurant. So I say, “No.” And now that customer thinks I’m an asshole.
I think you’re almost completely right about this, eris, and it totally sucks. I’m not just talking about customer service jobs, either. The corporate mentality that is causing this horrible working environment pervades every job in every field I’ve ever had. And it’s getting worse. I’m probably over-dramatizing, but I don’t know how humans are going to survive working for a living in a couple of generations. Maybe the kids have the right idea; don’t care about anything, and nothing can hurt you.
Of course you are not being an asshole here but instead of saying, “no”, why not say, “I’m really sorry but I don’t know how to do that. The last time you were here there was a different cook on duty.”? If you don’t speak directly to the customer, be sure to have the waitstaff convey that. A reasonable customer will be disappointed but not think you’re an asshole.
Haj
Worse? Worse than child labor, sixty hour work weeks, no safety regulations? Over the last several generations, it’s gotten significantly better. That’s not to say that things are perfect.
On the other side of the coin, all this talk about kids today not being as good as the kids of yesteryear is just so much nonsense. People have been giving the “kids today” speech since before recorded history. If all of those “kids today” whiners had been right for all of these several thousand years, we’d be devolved single cellular creatures at this point.
Haj
That’s my feeling, as well. Admittedly, I’ve only worked in two “fields”, one being fast food, the other being service and installation of various electromechanical devices, but in all six cases the result was the same: neither supply nor demand for being a good worker, other than from the customer side, but since it is the same nearly everywhere, it isn’t like the customers have an alternative!
Yeah, it’s all liberalism’s fault. :rolleyes:
Bad service is apparently not the only problem in America; simplistic analysis is also prevalent.