"I could care less"

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@pulykamell

I agree there. As for “infer” and “imply” that’s kind of interesting to me, as I also twinge every time I hear it used incorrectly. However, my neighborhood dialect has the same issues with “borrow” and “lend” and it doesn’t bother me there, and it’s a similar sort of non-standard use. I sometimes wonder why that is. (That is, why do I twinge at one usage, but not the other.) These are interesting questions to me.

I agree. Things like “Are you inferring that I don’t understand irony?” do make me twinge, just like I twinge when someone uses literally as an intensifier (I admit it, I do!) or when someone says, “Just between you and I.”

However, I don’t think any of these expressions have ever in my life confused me. I’ve never heard someone use “infer” and been unclear from context which meaning of the word they intended. So I regard these twinges as personal problems, things I need to keep to myself and hopefully, one day, get over.

[pulykamell]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

I agree. Things like “Are you inferring that I don’t understand irony?” do make me twinge, just like I twinge when someone uses literally as an intensifier (I admit it, I do!) or when someone says, “Just between you and I.”

And, meanwhile, I don’t mind “literally” as an intensifier/emphatic. But “just between you and I” does bug me. But I’m interested in why people use these phrases.

[Sherrerd]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

My problem with the slurring theory is that it doesn’t match how I think people slur. It’d be an interesting experiment–perhaps you can try it–to ask a bunch of people to say, “I couldn’t care less” while slurring. When I say it, what comes out is something like

If I slur, “I could care less,” it comes out as

What disappears in the “couldn’t care less” isn’t the /n/, it’s the /d/ and the /t/. The /n/ remains. There’s no way that I’d slur “couldn’t care less” into “could care less.” When I try to slur that away, my tongue trips up.

Again, this is my own slurred patterns–do your own differ?

This certainly looks like one of your challenges, but why are you addressing it to me? I haven’t discussed or mentioned “slurring.”

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@pulykamell

And, meanwhile, I don’t mind “literally” as an intensifier/emphatic. But “just between you and I” does bug me. But I’m interested in why people use these phrases.

I wish I didn’t mind “literally”; I think it’s a fine usage that enriches the language (and no, I’m not just saying that to watch exploding pedant heads, although I do enjoy the ireworks). The problem is that every time I encounter it, I flash back onto the annoying outrage over the usage, and it distracts me from what the person was saying. I blame the mavens entirely for ruining this excellent word usage.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Sherrerd

This certainly looks like one of your challenges, but why are you addressing it to me? I haven’t discussed or mentioned “slurring.”

Is that not the mistake theory you were talking about? If not, what mistake theory were you talking about?

[Killing_Time]

@pulykamell

It’s fine. You don’t have to believe me.

And, once again, I’m not saying it’s can’t. We don’t disagree there.

Despite your insistence that you aren’t saying that, everything you have written implies that you ARE.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

nm

[Killing_Time]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

The idea that a couple of posters on a messageboard, shooting the shit about a term, are going to dispose of the research of a world-respect linguist is pretty funny.

I said nothing about disposing of anyone’s research. You’re not following what’s being written. Pulky WROTE that this alleged inflection change doesn’t indicate sarcasm. If you have a theory, and you admit that a piece of evidence does not fit the theory, you discard it. What your “world-respect linguist” says has fuck-all to do with it.

If you don’t understand that, then there’s not a lot of point to continuing to converse with you. Do you guys even understand the concept of relevance?

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Killing_Time

I said nothing about disposing of anyone’s research. You’re not following what’s being written. Pulky WROTE that this alleged inflection change doesn’t indicate sarcasm.

I think you misunderstood what he wrote.

[Killing_Time]

@pulykamell

And, meanwhile, I don’t mind “literally” as an intensifier/emphatic. But “just between you and I” does bug me. But I’m interested in why people use these phrases.

Ugh. Why even bother to have words if they don’t mean anything?

Or maybe I should say, why even banana to have dog doo if they don’t bubble anything?

[Killing_Time]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

I think you misunderstood what he wrote.

I don’t think you’re really reading the thread.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Killing_Time

I don’t think you’re really reading the thread.

Okay, thanks for sharing!

[Killing_Time]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Okay, thanks for sharing!

Why don’t you give it a rest and let the grownups talk, m’kay?

[eburacum45]

The ‘mistake or mishearing’ theory is possible, but does not explain other similar ‘minimal or absent negative’ phrases like ‘I could give a damn’. There seems to be a real process that produces these phrases, and it doesn’t seem to be simply a mistake.

Incidentally I had never seen or heard the ‘could give a damn’ phrase before this thread, but it does crop up in Google text searches, and is almost always negative. Yet in some contexts people do actually state that they ‘give a damn’ and mean it; this phrase is even more ambiguous than the ‘could care less’ phrase, which never means that the person could care (a lot) less.

[Colibri]

@Killing_Time

I don’t think you’re really reading the thread.

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Okay, thanks for sharing!

@Killing_Time

Why don’t you give it a rest and let the grownups talk, m’kay?

Moderator Note

This thread has been descending into pointless bickering for some time. Unless someone is going to present some new factual arguments, I’m going to close this.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Colibri

Moderator Note

This thread has been descending into pointless bickering for some time. Unless someone is going to present some new factual arguments, I’m going to close this.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

Indeed, and my apology for my part in this.

[dunkleosteus]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

I don’t mean to pick on you, but THIS, not “I could care less,” is the sort of poor use of language that we should get worried about. I’ve read this sentence several times and cannot figure out how the word “allow” makes any sense in it. What’s your proposal: do we jail people who use the phrase? Kick them off the airplane? Pummel them in the streets? I don’t think you’re communicating very clearly here, certainly not as clearly as I’d communicate were I to say, “I could care less about arbitrary rules of convention.” The only person who’d fail to get my meaning would be someone deliberately failing.

It’s one of my problems as a teacher. I joke around with students as I pass out papers, and today as a student helped me, I said something like, “Thanks, Susan, that’s a ginormous help. Even though ‘ginormous’ isn’t even a word it’s a ginormous help.”

A student nearby thought about it for a minute and said, “Yeah it is! If ‘flub’ can be a word, ‘ginormous’ can be a word!” His logic, while appealing, doesn’t really hold up. However, he was right.

“You’re right,” I said. “Of course it’s a word, since you know what I meant when I said it. I should’ve said, even though it’s not a word in the dictionary.”

It’s always a precarious balance between confusing students and misleading them. I try to be clear when I teach kids the conventions of spoken and written English that they’re rules of a game, not absolute rules of the universe. If you said, “Is you ready?” at home, that’s a fine thing to say, even if I’ll encourage, “Are you ready?” in the classroom.

I didn’t think “allow” had multiple interpretations. You allow something when you make no effort to stop it. When you acknowledge something and ignore it, you allow it to exist. Inaction can be as detrimental as encouragement.

[Colibri]

Per my previous instructions, I’m closing this.