I despise Trump but would vote for him over someone who wants to take my family's insurance away

Having voted for every Democrat since Bill Clinton I would like to vote for another pro-business Democrat. Barack Obama was the gold standard with his JOBS Act and TPP.

Now there is this:

And Senator Warren claims she doesn’t know ANYONE who likes their health insurance?


If successful in the primaries a Warren or Sanders would doom the Democratic Party in 2020.

Why would a candidate wear such a millstone?

I’m on Medicare, and I’m 10x more satisfied with it than any private insurance I ever had.

Or you could ask my daughter, who couldn’t even get health insurance before Obamacare.

Or my daughter-in-law, who couldn’t afford health insurance before expanded Medicaid.

If you want private insurance to be the hill Democrats die on, I have to ask, why would YOU want to wear that millstone?

I would ask you to think hard and distinguish between access to health care and access to health insurance.

Isn’t it really access to health care you’re after?

Why would you put health insurance companies and their profits in between you and your access to health care?

I just don’t get it. It’s not like you get better/different access to health care because your insurance company is in charge of it. You’re just paying more for that access so they can maintain their profits.

That presupposes that they have health insurance, which quite a few people don’t. Sure, if you have insurance through work, you probably don’t think it’s too bad. But lots of people don’t have that.

Also, in 2013, they probably did not have as great a sense of what would be possible with some sort of universal health care. You can be satisfied with what you have, but still prefer a change if you think it can be better.

Your argument is “You should not get to choose FedEx because the US Post Office is all you really need”

I should get to choose what is best for my family.

I know that if everyone is on Medicaid then Medicaid will suffer more than it already does.

(For the record I support the ACA)

As someone whose employment would be fully wiped out overnight if we immediately switched to Medicare for all and who is intimately knowledgeable about these issues due to my work, I also support expanding the ACA as proposed by Pete Buttegieg/Joe Biden. The conversion one way or the other must be done gradually. There are a lot of people who will lose their employment if we instantly abandon the bloated system we currently have.

I think Pete Buttegieg is correct when he said at the debate on Thursday that people will figure it out for themselves if we simply add a public option. It will cost less and provide better access to care.

But believe me, what the insurance companies are doing to the public, even through employers, is disgusting. You only think you’re getting FedEx. You’re really getting the Pony Express and paying for FedEx. Right into their pockets. And I would gladly forego my current employment if we got something more compassionate and sane. Medicare for all would fulfill that better and faster than a gradual transition. However, because many people don’t understand this, I support the gradual transition – so you can think you’re choosing what’s best for your family.

Unless, of course, it turns out to work better, as it does…practically everywhere.

It is this smug attitude (that individuals don’t know what is best for them and should not get to choose) by Sanders/Warren types that will doom the Dems in 2020.

Remember Bernie famously said he likes bread lines because the rich don’t get to eat better.

It’s not a smug attitude. It’s an understanding borne of 20 years’ experience working to bridge the ever-growing gap of coverage for employers and employees for premium, co-pay and deductible costs. I’ve watched this train wreck in real time. I know everyone is paying more every year for a whole lot less coverage.

But obviously you didn’t start this thread to learn anything. You know best.

You need to think long and hard about what would happen if you lost your job. It could happen any time, and COBRA costs more than most people’s mortgage payments. Finding coverage while you are out of work is devastatingly expensive, and the GOP will just watch you (or your children) die rather than help you with that.

Browse around on gofundme.com if you want a real picture of the state of American health care.

Just one anecdotal data point.

I know TWO liberal friends who have expressed the same feelings as the OP.
People are scared of the public health care.

Let others be the guinea pig and if they do alright maybe the rest will come around.

What I really liked was when you couldn’t even GET insurance because of pre-existing conditions. That was always fun!

Still true for some, thanks to the GOP (no Medicaid expansion states)! And they’d like it to be that way again for everyone! Yay! /sarcasm

That’s the thing I can’t understand about people who think like the OP. Do they think they will never lose their job and thus their health care? Do they think their children are guaranteed a job with health coverage when they fall off their parents’ wonderful coverage plan?

GOP are not defending the preexisting condition clause in the ACA, either.

Plus I don’t know about others, but the coverage I have through my job is pretty crappy and I could lose it at any time. It was a struggle for my employer to find a plan for us. The premium for a family of 4 is off the charts.

No, it’s this smug attitude (namely, your attitude that a knowledgeable experienced professional explaining what the average layperson doesn’t know about a complicated subject is just being “smug”, and should be threatened with electoral failure instead of being listened to) that is making the Dems’ job a whole lot harder than it needs to be.

Our health insurance system can definitely be improved, but not if we refuse to acknowledge that there’s a lot that most of us don’t understand about it, and that our lack of understanding can be exploited for profit by those running the system.

Don’t be scared. There is zero chance that Medicare for all will come about any time soon regardless of who wins the white house.

Best case scenario, the Dems have slight majorities in the house and senate, that are only made possible with the help of Democrats winning close elections in relatively conservative districts. These legislators are only going to risk their seats voting for something that the entire Democratic party, and ideally a few moderate Republicans can get behind. If the topic is so controversial that even the Democrats running for president can’t agree on it, its not going to happen. The ACA barely made it through and took pretty much all of Obama’s political capital with it. The best we can hope for is ACA 2.0 that allows for a public option.

On the other hand if you value having a working Democracy and a Supreme court left of the Spanish Inquisition, there is a very real danger of voting for Trump.

"It turns out that Kaiser posed this question to Americans back in 2013 ‘Do you have a generally favorable or generally unfavorable opinion of your own health insurance company?’ "
My deductible was $3500 less in 2013 than it is in 2019, for the same policy. My opinion today is much lower than it was in 2013.

As far as I know, all of the likely candidates (including Trump) are proposing massive upheavals to the health insurance system that will probably result in lots of people losing “their” insurance. (Trump’s plan is to bring back pre-existing conditions, lifetime limits, no mandatory coverage, etc.)

Of course, people lose their insurance all of the time right now. Most people get insurance from at-will employers and their insurance can be taken away in the blink of an eye.

OP, how many hospitalizations and/or surgeries have you had in the last few years? What is your out-of-pocket maximum, and how many times have you reached it? I find that generally people who are happy with their insurance are either people who have scarcely had to use it or those fortunate few who have gold standard insurance, such as what Boeing employees get. I had crappy insurance through my employer and had $13,000 in medical bills my last two years of employment.

Sucks to be me, right? Nope. I’m now on Medicare and it’s lightyears better. However, I’m smart enough to recognize how much better off the country would be with a complete overhaul of health care, and insurance companies (eventually) be damned. I’m compassionate enough to want others to have quality health care they can afford. I’m sick to death of seeing GoFundMe’s for people with insurance who can’t afford medical costs.

I hope that doesn’t sound smug, because I’m not. I’m angry.

What’s standing in the way of universal health care in the US is…insurance companies. It will not happen until the insurance companies get out of it, which they’re in no hurry to do, and meanwhile, the costs of health care have gone up because of insurance. Not medical professionals, not medical equipment companies, and certainly not illegal immigrants. Insurance companies.

Insurance companies are also, for a lot of people, the barrier between their own customers and good health care. But definitely the barrier blocking universal FREE health care. They have the best lobbyists money can buy, and they also have the money.

Per capita health care costs are twice in the USA what they are in Canada – and the only reason for that is that we still have a private health-insurance industry, which Canada has long since socialized/marginalized. That extra cost is going entirely to the insurance-company execs and shareholders. Nowhere else.

Let there be no misunderstanding: When we speak of single-payer healthcare, we are not talking about “government taking over the health care industry.” That would be the British National Health model. Rather, we are talking about government taking over the health insurance industry – a far less objectionable and more desirable thing.