I can’t tell from one picture that is overly brightened.
However, Stacy Dash and Holly Robinson were two extremely attractive black ladies I can think of very quickly. So, I don’t think your theory is true.
I can’t keep up with this thread, but since when was Lenny Kravitz considered black? Do I live in another world? He and Cree Summers have been known as mixed or bi-racial since I first saw them in the 80s.
No, you haven’t. Michael Jackson is the most famous example.
Nose jobs in Hollywood are nothing new. They’re not something black people invented. But the beauty ideal in this society is not something most black people are born with. This society favors blondes with European facial features. (Notice how you unintentionally equated ugly with “African nose” in an earlier post.) It’s an ideal that everyone–not just blacks–try to aspire to. It just happens that when blacks adapt to it, they become “less black” looking.
I’ll wager a guess; take it with a grain of salt. The pressure to conform may be even greater for a light-skinned black woman than it is for a dark-skinned woman with more typical African features. Our minds have been inculcated to appreciate European beauty, and we’ve progressed to the point where we can now appreciate African beauty. But the beauty of the “in betweener” is harder for us to process. We don’t know what to make of a kinky-haired woman with creamy white skin, or a beige woman with a wide nose and prominent cheek bones. Modeling has tended to embraced the exotic beauty, but Hollywood and the music industry have been slow.
Cite? As far as I know, Halle has always identified as black, way before she won the Oscar. Not that there would have been any need for her to do so. When’s the last time anyone has asked you to publically announce what race you belong to? And I distinctly remember reading an interview in which she stated that her mother raised her to self-identify as black since that’s the way the world would see her.
It’s only quite recently where it’s become hip to label oneself as exclusively biracial. Besides Tiger Woods and perhaps Mariah Carey, I can’t think of a celebrity who has self-identified as such.
Here ya go. Three brown skinned girls in a candid shot.
I don’t mean to give you a hard time. I am only being honest when I say that the idea that a nose that is not overly negroid indicates the girl is mixed seems strange to me because where I work, there are tons of lightskinned girls with noses of all shapes and sizes, and no one ever assumes they are mixed. Ever. They are all described as ‘black’ if it comes up at all. I think that once a woman is famous for being beautiful, some people feel more comfortable not describing her as black.
I mean, what about the full, fleshy, negroid lips on these actresses? Do they not make one assume that they probably black?
Are we to believe that a large nose will indicate blackness, but not the big ol’ lips on these actresses? Or is the fact that ‘big lips’ are in, and purchased by white actresses, making them actually a feature that is no longer to be associated with black women? Maybe this is kinda like what my husband said to me about big booties. Looking at an ad for panties that give flat-butt women a more shapely ass, he said, "Since when in the hell is something like this considered a Brazillion booty?? Is that something we all made up to avoid saying “get a black girl booty with these special panties?”
I forgot Michael as he has become such a joke. Besides I remember him from the Jackson Five.
I don’t think using the phrase “Hollywood standard of beautiful” is the same as even an “unintentionally equated ugly with ‘African nose’”. In fact that was said semi-derisively as I am not a fan of the “Hollywood Standard”. I prefer dark-haired beauties with some skin tone to the typical washed out blond. However, I am now just being defensive.
To your cite request: I did not say that was the first time. I said I heard hear identify herself as African-America around that time. That does not mean that I thought it was the first time. It was just the first time I heard her bother to say that.
Jim
I hate this crap. They are people,human beings as we all are.
Oh good, so I’m not the only one who thinks this.
I feel like I am digging myself a deep hole. I can’t tell or make a decision base on just those photos I guess.
It is more than just the nose, but the pictures I showed of Halle were just what I could fine on a Google search. In Bond, in her Bond Girl bikini, she just looked mixed race to me. I already mentioned Stacy Dash and Holly Robinson were beautiful and appear to be black to me. I don’t think they have particularly African features, so I think it is the whole package, but the nose does make a large difference along with the hair. Vivica A. Fox is another beautiful black lady and she has an African looking nose.
I am going to stay away from the booty and lip question as I don’t want to dig a deeper hole and I don’t think it relates to anything I have said.
Jim (I have tried to be completely honest here, but I am tired and I am going to go crash very soon. I don’t know if my answers are helping at all.)
Your answers are very helpful, in that they point out to me when I am getting over excited about the wrong things. I get a bit worked up on race issues, and sometimes I forget to focus on the root of the matter. Sorry to pick on you.
Cool, have yourself a good night.
Go Obama! He kicked ass tonight and hopefully pulled ahead to stay ahead.
Jim
I think a lot of people would be surprised that skin on the darker end of the spectrum doesn’t always mean “not mixed” either. I know of a child who’s darker than **Nzinga’s ** daughter, but who only has one black parent. To be fair, the other parent is a dark Italian, but you never know how genes are going to pair up.
IOKADDI.
Regards,
Shodan
I don’t have much to add to this discussion, but I’d just like to say that if I saw someone who looked like Halle Berry on the streets of Tel Aviv I would assume she was Jewish, probably of Yemenite extraction (like the late Ofra Haza). Needless to say, I would consider her to be of the same race as me, despite my blonde hair and blue eyes. That’s because race is a social - or let’s be honest, political - construct.
I never thought of Berry, or Alba or Mariah Carey for that matter, as mixed or black – it was never a question in my mind that all of them were white. That said, if people self-identify as a certain race I’m not going to disagree with them even if I think race as a classification should disappear due to its unhelpfulness (as shown by this thread.)
Eh, but her nose has been hacked up, too. You’ll be hard pressed to find a black celebrity who hasn’t taken the nippers to their schnozz, mixed or not.
Yup. I have two nieces who have the same parents. And appearance wise, they are almost literally night and day. Interestingly enough, though, I wouldn’t call either racially ambiguous (even though they have a mixed nut heritage). My light-skinned niece has kinky hair. My dark-skinned niece has wavier hair.
I think if Slash was not playing rock music in a white band, with his face constantly buried underneath his hair and stovepipe hat, people’s perceptions of him would change. Maybe I’m wrong on that, I dunno. I have no idea what Slash’s self-identity is. (As an aside, it’s kind of wild that Slash is doing smooth jazz now. You go boy.)
Prince is another interesting data point. Back in '84, I distinctly remember (even though I was a kid at the time) hearing that Prince was mixed. The movie Purple Rain definitely helped promulgate this rumor. It seemed to be part of his mystique and a key ingredient to his cross-over appeal. But Prince is not mixed in the sense that the word is commonly used. Both his parents are black. And as much as I love the man, he was seriously trying to work that tragic mulatto angle to his advantage and I’m glad he stopped with that nonsense.
Did she have the work done, before or after Independance Day? That was the film where I first really took notice of her. I would guess after, it will probably turn out that I am wrong.
I’m still sticking with my original point. All these observations are correct, but they have nothing to do with the “one drop” rule, and evrything to do with the “1/16” rule. Can you think of anyone with 15 white great-great-grandparents who you perceive as black?
Sure. They all said this guy was black.
No dog in this fight, and I don’t know the history between you two, but I read brazil84’s post as a compliment, albeit a somewhat backhanded one. Or am I just being naive?
Reading it again, I see that he said I was possibly underemployed. I originally read it as unemployed and thought it was an intentional insult. If I misunderstood, I apologize to Brazil.
