Look, the old bat probably was racist. It’s within the realm of possibility, I suppose, that she was innocently pointing out the chances that a black person would rob a white person based on the statistical likelihood that a white person would have “fancy gadgets” without a tinge of racism, and not that the bad scary negros (you know – they) have it out for whitey, but I seriously doubt it. This excuse-makers here give me a real chuckle, both because they’re clearly full of shit, and because they’re poking at this “Look at how good of a white person I am!” OP.
But even sven apparently believes this to be actually true–she said she thinks black people are indeed targeting white people. So how is Pearls a racist for simply making a statement that she and the listener believe to be a true factual statement?
If I performed a study on average height of Asians v. White people and found Asians to be shorter on average, would saying “Asians are shorter on average than white people” make me a racist?
H and MOL, of course I agree with both of you, but I’m trying to walk even sven through the steps of thinking abouyt this so maybe she’ll realize what she’s doing. Hasn’t worked so far though.
Rand Rover – obviously even sven can answer for herself, but my own answer to your commentary is that the statement would be factual only if the gravamen of the woman’s warning was that there was a group of people specifically targeting whites – that is, as Kimstu has already observed, if we are to believe that a black person walking down the street with an iPhone would be safe, but a white person targeted, then the woman’s observation would be simple truth and an inference of racism on her part would not be warranted.
Clearly, the only way to restore racial harmony is for you to walk through your neighborhood alone at night, flaunting your money and possessions, in hope of finding yourself mugged. With luck, your assailants will be masked. If not—and if they do happen to be black—you can consider it a small payback for all the injustices visited upon black people by your white ancestors. Either way, you get to come out feeling pretty good about yourself. (Unless you’re also beaten up, or worse.)
Please note the “intelligent and rational” definition of racist that you provided. So if someone said black people are inferior to white people, they’re not racist since they believe it to be factually true?
Edit action: Ah, Young Randy, that’ll never happen because she only wrote up this OP for Liberal Cred only. Here you go, even sven. I, black person, give you one (1) Prop for being such an accepting, liberal white person. I hope this helps.
I might question why you have such a hardon for proving Asians are short but no, not necessarily racist. If you beckon me over on a dark corner in DC, while wearing heels and pearls(!), to tell me your theory of Asian shortness then I don’t think it would be out to line for me to tell you to keep your racism to yourself.
Seems to me just a teachable moment that you allowed to pass, Sven, nothing less but nothing more. Let’s say you had your wits about you, instead of on the escalier, and you responded by saying, in a friendly, totally non-hostile way, that you didn’t think that it’s about black and white nearly as much as it’s about rich and poor, which of course overlap somewhat.
Then you walk away. Maybe you’ve educated this woman into rethinking her worldview (eventually), maybe not. Probably more effective than anything else you could have done, though.
That would depend on why you are making the statement. The fact that it’s a true statement is irrelevant to determining racism in someone making the statement.
Bringing race into something that isn’t explicitly about race usually has an agenda. You don’t walk around saying “I went to my Asian dentist today” or “I voted for our black president.” You don’t say “I was late because I…and I am a white person…missed my train” or “I bought a soda at 7-11, standing next to a Latin guy.”
Would she have said this to a black woman? Would she have said “Well, they are stealing iPhones. But you shouldn’t worry too much, they are robbing white people.”? Probably not. She would probably realize that interjecting race into something that isn’t a race thing is inappropriate
Well, it’s inappropriate for me, too. I don’t appreciate it. If you wouldn’t say it to a black lady, don’t say it to me. If not wanting to hear casual racism from randos makes me a self-righteous liberal, god help me, I’m a self-righteous liberal.
That’d be a baffling level of self-loathing. DC has one of the highest incomes per capita in the US. It also has some of the highest crime, HIV/AIDS and high school drop out rates in the country. This is a f-cked up city in a lot of ways, and the contrasts are pretty stark and yes, often along racial lines…something that has a lot of history to it. A lot more than a girl from California can make sense of- especially after being here a couple months.
Anyway, I don’t want to pay $1,000 bucks to live in a closet, so here I am. I don’t really understand any of the dynamics here and I don’t pretend to. But no, just because we are two white ladies in a black neighborhood does not mean we are casual-racism friends.
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I believe that a racist is someone who doesn’t care about the facts–they have made up their mind that there is something inherently “wrong” or “inferior” or whatever on a fundamental level with all people of at least one other race. Contrast that person with another person who simply believes there’s an actual factual difference between people of different races and doesn’t ascribe any moral judgment or anything like that to the difference.
So, if I read a study on the height of asians on average and believed them to be shorter, ascribing no moral wrongness or inferiority to asians beca than whitesuse of that, then I’m not a racist. But if I think asians are inherently inferior to white people based only on their asianness, then I am a racist.
Let’s make it more difficult: if I read a study on the intelligence of blacks on average and believed them to be less intelligent than whites, ascribing no moral wrongness or inferiority to blacks because of that, then I’m not a racist. But if I think blacks are inherently inferior to white people based only on their blackness, then I am a racist.
Now let’s return to the OP: if I read a study or news reports about the victims of black crime on average and believed blacks to actually be targeting whites at a particular time and place, ascribing no moral wrongness or inferiority to blacks in general because of that, then I’m not a racist. But if I think blacks are inherently inferior to white people based only on their blackness, then I am a racist.
I have no idea if Mr Dibble hates Tea Baggers more than you hate black people but even if he does it you’re still not making much of a point. Black people are born black, they have no control over the color of their skin. A person makes a choice to be a Tea Bagger.
Let’s not return to the OP, because it’s asinine posturing. So let me see if I have this straight – you’re racist only if your belief in the inferiority of certain race(s) is not based on any effort to find a factual basis --or-- if as far as you know, it is grounded in facts, but you ascribe some moral value to the difference?
You definition is, IMO, too limited Rand. I find a far simpler one is - you make a racist statement when you classify a person or their actions solely or primarily based on their race (or the race of others), particularly when their race is irrelevant to the classification or action.
If I see that you have an Asian name, and therefore don’t consider letting you join my intramural basketball team, that’s racist even though “Asians are shorter than white people” is true in the aggregate. This can go the other way if you try to grab all the black guys cause they must be good at hoops.
If I see that you are black and therefore don’t hire you for a job in my mathematics department because “in the aggregate blacks are less intelligent than whites” then I am sure as hell being a racist. This can go the other way if you preferentially hire the Asian dude because he must be good at math.
If I tell you (a white person) to watch out because blacks are robbing white people even though there is no reason to believe that a poor white person wouldn’t grab my iPhone or that a black man wouldn’t rob an Asian dude’s iPhone, I am making a racist statement.
All of these, obviously, have different levels of odiousness, and it’s nearly impossible to never make racial generalizations in real life. But it’s still important to recognize it when it happens. One key hint - if you use a term like the knowing “they” to describe a group of people, you are likely making a racist statement.
MOL, I think the disconnect is in your use of inferiority. In my examples, I don’t think that an asian person is morally inferior to any white person just because asians on average are shorter than whites on average, and I don’t believe a black person is morally inferior to any white person just because blacks on average are less intelligent than whites on average. Neither of those two facts (assuming they are indeed true) mean that asians or blacks are less worthy of respect, lor less valuable as human beings, or whatever other touchy-feely stuff than whites.
A racist does believe all those things (ie, that asians or blacks are less valuable etc). They may believe their belief is supprted by the facts, but that doesn’t really matter–it is that belief in inherent less valuableness that makes them a racist.