I just want to echo what some have said upthread, that I’ve noticed time and again that this board doesn’t “get” R&B and rap/hip-hop.
Which, in itself, is not a problem, the problem comes when people see that as proof of their refined taste, and want to educate the rest of us on why our tastes are teh dumb.
(And I’m not saying that because my tastes skew towards R&B, actually I have very broad taste, that’s partly because I don’t get sniffy about music genres).
On Beyonce specifically, I think she deserves to be a star as much as anyone right now. I think she did some great music with Destiny’s Child, and I’ve liked a lot of her solo work and collaborations. I think she has a great voice; maybe not up there with the very best, but calling her third tier or whatever is going way too far. And yeah, she’s got the looks.
Musically, she’s probably peaked now, but of course that’s the norm in music, even among the superstars. Doing great performances, and turning out the occasional Single Ladies is about as good as any star has managed, post peak.
Finally, I even want to come out in support of Starship’s We built this city!
It’s not a good tune by any means, by I think people really beat up on it because of the uncool lyrics. It’s got a couple of hooks in there and you can see why it sold well and remains a popular karaoke track.
There are plenty of hit songs from that era I could play that would wash over you and 10 minutes later you would not be able to recall well enough to hum. WBTC isn’t one of them.
This board is so often edifying. It’s fascinating to learn of other people’s perspectives, regarding something I care about. I love music, over multiple genres, and the notion of placing such a great deal of importance on authenticity is… well, I can only describe it as alien. If I had to make a list of things that are important to me about music, authenticity wouldn’t make the top ten, so it’s hard for me to grok the notion of someone considering it the single most important thing.
I didn’t much like music (or like much music) at all until I discovered things that spoke to me, said something to me about my life, and seemed thoroughly authentic (though I wasn’t consciously thinking of authenticity per se, as I was too young). I’m struck by what it says about me that I responded so strongly to such dark, painful material at twelve years of age, but that’s another discussion, I suppose.
I don’t know - the only Woody Allen movies I can remember seeing are Vicky Cristina Barcelona and Match Point (spot the common element :)) , and he wasn’t in those, that I can remember.
It’s a subjective thing really so does it really matter? Her music is still great; she collaborates with interesting songwriters; she has her own creative input into the process which makes it ‘authentic’. For someone like Rihanna, I enjoy her songs but I’m not particularly interested in her as a person. Beyonce is a little more interesting to me.
I liked that campaign too but it was a reaction against a deeply manufactured process where an X Factor song gets to No 1 no matter if it’s a good pop song or not. It’s a bit different from reacting against Beyonce who’s carved out her own path recently (having parted from her father professionally), who is a phenomenal performer and who has plenty of genuinely great songs.
With both Costello and now with Beyoncé, you are basically saying “I don’t like them and they are therefore Not Good.”
When you are presented with thoughtful discussion, e.g., Costello is actually a great singer technically, but, sure, has a tonality that some folks don’t like, or the Beyoncé is popular for clear, quality, musical reasons (and nothing like Kim K in any way that matters) you come back with long posts that basically say “I still don’t like them.”
I get upset because you don’t demonstrate an open-minded willingness to learn; you just keep saying “I still don’t like them.” I hear you: you don’t like Beyoncé. Totally cool.
And as for Sledgehammer - again, cool that you don’t like it. Your call. But to lump it in a bucket of bad 80’s songs - that’s your call, but perhaps you might acknowledge that it is a well-loved song by most and that YOUR view is perhaps in the minority.
Is that list adjusted for inflation, etc…? It seems awfully skewed toward recent acts.
I wonder if maybe looking at lifetime sales as a criteria is flawed; maybe something more like number of top 10 albums, or aggregate weeks in the top 40 across the catalog or something like that might be more appropriate.
I mean, I’m sure there are people with very large aggregate earnings who weren’t ever chart-toppingly dominant like some of the acts in the thread.
Let me put it this way. She is talented, say a 8. But she’s hyped as if she’s a 10. This causes a disconnect. “She’s all that” yes, but no “and a side of fries”.
Beyoncé is obviously a big name in music, and as a celebrity. No doubt about that.
But I feel the 2000’s were her better decade, most of her hits occurred in 2009 and prior. Sure her song “Drunk in Love” reached #2 last year, but got scant radio airplay and quickly fell of the charts. The album has gotten plenty of buzz, but no one particular single. There is a difference.
Some point to “Single Ladies” as a big hit, as it sure was. But that was from late 2008, six and half years ago! Beyoncé has NOT had a #1 single since the decade began in 2010.
Considering how the album got buzz, none of it’s singles did. Have heard her songs on urban stations than Top 40 mainstream. From 2003 till 2009 she got plenty of airplay and her songs were staples of Top 40.
This is NOT the case in this decade. To be fair Beyoncé has made a name for herself, even if she stops making any music.
But she is hardly the most successful music artist today. Or the past few years, her 2011 release being a flunk. Rihanna and Katy Perry have 13 and 10 #1 singles, compared to Beyoncé’s 5. Both those women have had at least one #1 hit from 2006-2013 for Rihanna and 2008-2014 for Katy Perry.
Beyoncé’s five #1’s happened in the last decade, the last of which was in 2008. She is hardly the biggest artist now, no one would argue that Taylor Swift is much more relevant mainstream wise than Beyoncé. Her songs get far more radio airplay than anything Beyoncé. Her most recent song is titled “7/11” and checking the Billboard Hot 100 site of last week’s hit singles, this Beyoncé tune is at #37.
Do you really thank Vanilla Ice and Justin Bieber are/were on the same level?
Yeah, I hear what you are saying, but I think the relativism of a sports critique is implied given it’s zero sum among other things. Further, I don’t hear people literally saying Carr has NO talent. The critiques I object to are not people saying Bieber or Beyonce suck (akin to an empty sports insult), but rather that they have no talent.
I don’t think you should feel bad about it if the question was asked in earnest.
That list is almost certainly wrong. Taylor Swift has had 5 studio albums. The most popular has sold less than 10mm copies.
Keep in mind that album sales are largely dependent on audience demographics. Beyonce’s fans are older and buy fewer albums than the fans of people like Bieber and Swift. It’s not really an accurate measure of the reach of their music.
Although I do dislike Costello (his stuff almost always grates on my nerves, though like the song “My Aim is True”), I don’t actually dislike Bey. I like a few of her songs and most of her stuff just seems kinda boring, uninspired, and uncreative.
I don’t agree with this interpretation, but YMMV.
Well, it certainly was back in the 80s. I despised popular music at the time and listened to punk and altie stuff. I think 1985-1990 was one of the worst periods in pop music ever.
Her album, “Beyonce” has sold 5 million copies in 4 months. It is definitely on track to sell as much as “I am… Sasha Fierce” and “B’day” (8 million each) and may hit “Dangerously In Love” (11 million) - It’s already passed “4” (3 mil). This in an era when album sales are declining. That’s not nothing. Yeah, it isn’t Taylor Swift level sales, but no one sells albums like Taylor Swift does. But Beyonce outsells just about everyone else.
True that album sales are declining, people don’t buy albums like they used to. I mentioned her album was big, but the particular songs are not getting enough buzz.
For an album with that kind of sales, one would expect that it would generate hit singles.
Adele’s album “21” from barely four years ago sold a lot, more so than Taylor Swift’s “1989”. So there are other artists who sell millions of albums, though far less than in the past.
But your analysis isn’t correct, per ISiddiqu. And she killed with her SuperBowl performance a couple of years ago, and like Prince, who hasn’t had a significant hit in decades - burnished her reputation as a dominant entertainer, i.e., a megastar.
:smack:
On a complete hijack, has anyone else ever noticed that Rihanna’s Shut Up and Drive is pretty much exactly the same as New Order’s Blue Monday? When the song gets going, I find myself singing “How does it feel, to treat me like you do…”
Rihanna definitely focuses on pop singles in a way that Beyonce simply doesn’t. Different approach.
