I don't get it: Why Stoics be hating on Epicurus/Epicurean philosophy?

Actually, Paul says it too, in 1 Cor 15.

Hold on. Back in post #16, it was a “cartoonish attack on Epicureanism” by someone who appeared to have missed a large chunk of what Epicureanism is actually about. So, did he know Greek culture and values, or did he just mistake a caricature for the real thing?

FWIW, I don’t think it’s really about Epicureanism. Paul uses the expression in the context of a discussion about belief in the resurrection (“If the dead are not raised, ‘Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.’”) True, the Epicureans didn’t believe in an afterlife or any kind of resurrection, but equally the Stoics had little interest in an afterlife, and no belief in resurrection. So it seems to me that what Paul is discussing here is hedonism. I don’t think we can assume that Paul equated Epicureanism and hedonism (which, as you point out in post #16, would have been a mistake).

The only real time Epicureanism is mentioned in the bible, as far as I can tell, is in Acts 17, when Paul is in Athens, and some Stoic and Epicurean philosophers ask him about the nature of God. 1 Corinthians 15 condemns people who say that Jesus wasn’t raised from the dead and that people in general weren’t raised from the dead, which would include Epicureans, but also a lot of people.

If you’re looking for condemnations of the philosophy, look to Judaism and the Mishnah, where the term “Apikoros” is used to describe heretics and those who deny God or the afterlife. Apikoros, of course, means Epicurean.

And civic responsibility as such, the way you’re probably conceptualizing it, wasn’t really the same sort of thing in Greece and Rome as it is today.

My understanding is that Epicurus warned against politics because of the corrupting influences of pwoer and prestige. The ideal was to withdraw from public life but one could have a public life if one wasn’t doing it for fame or power and was honest & prudent. There were prominent Epicureans as Captain Amazing’s quote about Atticus shows so it is certainly possible to do your civic duties and be a Epicurean.

Ken Mylot put Epicurus’s doctrines and quotes into plain English on Epicurus.info but the site appears to be dead. The best I could find is this PDF.

http://media.library.ku.edu.tr/reserve/resfall07_08/comm101_dunkley/contemporaryrendering.pdf

He puts the Epicurean Counsels as:

-Don’t fear god.
-Don’t worry about death.
-Don’t fear pain.
-Live simply.
-Pursue pleasure wisely.
-Make friends and be a good friend.
-Be nonest in your business and private life.
-Avoid fame and political ambition.
The modern sense of Epicurean doesn’t share much with the philosophy. It talks of pleasure but not in the sense of gluttony and more in the sense of avoidance of pain/anxiety by seeking out the good simple things in life and leading a honest & honorable life.

Here is a good site on the history of Epicureanism including the conflicts with Judaism and Christianity as well as some on the conflict with Stoicism.

Thank you; that’s what I had remembered.

He still wasn’t referring to Epicureans, particularly.

Yo. Haters gonna hate, bro.

Well, it’s a lot like the East Coast-West Coast gangster-rap rivalry, you have to be in the culture to really understand.

Perhaps you’re a Cultural Epicurean – you know, just celebrating the major holidays like Ataraxiaday and Equanimitasday.

And declaring, “Yes, I’m really having fun” when in fact I’ve got a headache.