nm
The things I do for you, John
Nice work Bone. I like to collect data on this message board as provides it a check on my preconceptions. I had 2 substantial corrections in this thread regarding the number of BG warnings and the number of pit threads dedicated to him.
Also, Bone’s list includes suspensions for Curtis LeMay and Qin Shi Huangdi. They are the same person. He changed his username.
At least ten.
Watch out for Zeldar. He may be gaining on you.*
*Satchel Paige.
In 18 times at bat?
To me the value of a poster is best represented by his signal to noise ratio. To me a poster who has 78,000 posts of which 20 were warnable, is as valuable/offensive to me as 20 posters each of whom had 3,900 posts and 2 warnings each. Now it’s certainly possible to toe the line and never get warned (3,284 no warnings so far :o), but I think its reasonable to expect a slip-up every now and then. The people I want to see banned whose presence makes the message board a worse place, and who when you see their name on a post you roll your eyes and expect trouble. Not someone who is a avid contributor but trickles out a mistake here and there.
The point of warning and suspensions is to modify behavior. Not to act as a trigger for banning if some arbitrary ratio of undesirable to desirable behavior is reached. How hard is it to not link to an insult to indirectly insult someone? That takes a bit of premeditation.
One power drunk mod once gave me a warning too.
Thanks. You outdid yourself. I guess we were both wrong. I would have thought the double suspension number would have been more like 12 or 15. I’ll need to look later and see how many double suspension folks are still here, not banned. Gotta get some grub right now, though!
My instincts agree, but when I’ve voiced them mods have reacted with shock and horror. And frankly I trust their instincts more than my own, as they have more direct contact with the damned and banned. Their take is that a certain number are basically resistant to reform and create problems for the membership.
In this thread, I tried to point out a case of a poster with a moderate number of warnings who didn’t cause to much difficulty otherwise. But I was wrong: BG has more warnings than I was cognizant of, and did cause a fair amount of difficulty over and above the warnings. So the correlation appears to remain strong. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve seen a lot worse behavior than that displayed by BG. But that’s not really a defense, just an observation.
Me too. But mods have vehemently rejected evaluation of signal as has John Mace and most other participants in this forum. I can see their point. Evaluation of noise is relatively objective, while evaluation of signal is inherently subjective. And the latter would piss a lot of people off. The mods have gone further and have claimed that signal is basically impossible to weigh. But even if it isn’t, we’d be essentially creating 2 rule sets for posters, which is problematic.
I do think mod policy should be set with an eye on projected signal to noise. Mod policy involves the level and change of the civility line and the number of warnings that yield a suspension or ban (adjusted for context).
I’ve heard that if sufficiently intoxicated, mods will warn themselves.
Best Practices for Those with a Monthly Suspension
Most of them will be gone within a couple of years. To avoid this, Der Trihs of all people shows how to live under the Banhammer of Damocles.
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Stay away for more than the one month suspension. You really need more time off. And there’s a giant internet to explore.
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Ease back into the Dope gradually. Ditto.
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Set personal rules for yourself. (But for bog’s sake, don’t announce them here. For if you do, dipsticks will try to provoke you.) Those rules may involve staying away from entire forums. Do that if necessary.
Or don’t. And get banned. Life goes on.
Yup. I didn’t like the way IMHO and Great Debates were moderated, so I stopped going to either of those–except for a thread I started in GD before I made that policy for myself.
Sorry to see BG go but with a track record like that I can’t fault the decision, particularly as he seemed disinclined to amend his ways.
ABTM didn’t exist until (I want to say) c. 2011.
One suspension is apparently of indefinite length.
With regard to a signal-to-noise ratio and warnings, I agree with octopus, it just isn’t, nor should it be, that simple. Sheer number of posts, I think, is a poor judgment of one’s contribution. In theory, one poster could have 50k posts and they’re mostly “me too” types of posts that do little to add to the discussion. Similarly, someone else could have just, say, 5000 posts, but they’re extremely knowledgable, well reasoned, thought provoking, or what have you. Personally, I’d consider the second type more valuable, and push come to shove, if you’re going to base it off of warnings, just a second warning for the latter would be on par with 20 for the former in terms of total posts compared to warnings, each is averaging one every 2500 posts. I think a theoretical situation like this illustrates there’s more to it than a simple ratio can illustrate.
Further, there’s a difference in the type, severity, and timing of warnings people get. I think a good example would be comparing it to traffic laws. Some people can drive for 40 years and never get a ticket. Most of us get a ticket from time to time for speeding or failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign or whatever and no reasonable person will argue that that means those people shouldn’t drive. And, obviously, someone who has been driving for 40 years could easily pile up a dozen or more tickets compared to someone who has been driving for 5 or 10 years and still not be worth having their license suspended.
But what do you do if someone consistently gets speeding tickets? I’m not talking getting tagged every few years, more like once or twice a year. I don’t know other states, but I know here as you stack up more and more points in a short period of time, you start getting steeper fines, and getting too many starts getting suspensions, higher insurance rates making it possibly too expensive to drive, and eventual revocation. That is, even relatively innocuous infractions over time still, inarguably, can lead to revocation. It doesn’t matter HOW courteous or safe of a driver you are and that all those tickets were arguably not dangerous at all or just from a momentary lapse in judgment because one is late. Nor does it matter that you might drive 20k miles a year and it averages out to fewer per mile than someone else who drives a lot fewer. Instead, it simply shows a consistent disregard for the laws of the road and that that person cannot be trusted to obey them.
Yes, it’s easy to argue about infractions like DWIs, wreckless driving, and why only a couple of those should get a license revoked, but I think stepping back, we can really see how a large number of smaller ones is much the same. This is especially true if it’s the same one or two laws over and over again.
So, as far as BG goes, I don’t have a particular opinion on the quality of poster he was or the severity of the warnings or whatever, but I think the case has been well made at least that getting multiple warnings per year, especially with it being the same sort of things is much like the analogy. He had been here a long time and had a lot of posts, but still had clearly been informed and was aware of the rules, particularly the last few warnings, while relatively minor in my opinion, demonstrate that he knew where the line was and was trying to skirt around it like driving in the carpool lane with a mannequin in the front seat. So, again, don’t really have an opinion one way or the other about whether he SHOULD be banned, I’d be fine if he was still here, but I also can’t fault the mods at all for looking at that history and just seeing the pattern wasn’t going to change.
I like the moderators here, more often that not they appear right when I feel one is needed and their comments reflect my thoughts. They also appear to control their egos whilst being human and keep the threads vibrancy at their best.
That said, why the medieval ban? Surely there are more imaginative ways. Like our civilizations. We don’t ban people, we restrict their liberty temporarily. In this case it would be the liberty of speech. So why don’t we start by limiting the number of posts, then the range of forums, and ultimately restrain their access to a sort of pit’s pit.
I believe that sdmb will be here for a long long time and what makes a thread vibrant will relentlessly change with the times and generations. If by any chance some threads in the pit’s pit start to become popular we would be able to witness this first hand right here instead of on some other website.
ATMB was one of the original forums of the board, established in March 1999.
We would love to have the stocks or a dunking stool available, but I’m not sure how to implement that. Actually the best deterrent I can think of is the ability to transmit a sharp electric shock to the offender’s keyboard.
We have enough controversy now with a fairly simple and straightforward system. I can only imagine how people would argue about the finer points if we made it more complicated. (We do, however, sometimes impose topic bans for certain posters who have problems mainly when discussing certain subjects.)
It basically comes down to that if a poster doesn’t respond to warnings, a suspension, and a threat of banning, they are not going to respond to milder sanctions.
This is a US based web site where “we” have the death penalty. Are you really sure you want to pursue that analogy?
That’s because the poster has some, let us say, registration problems and we are waiting for him to get in touch with us. So far he hasn’t.
Occasionally we will suspend a poster for a longer time (sometimes at their own request) because they seem to be having temporary personal problems. Usually we change their status to “On Sabbatical” but sometimes that may have been overlooked.
Name changes too? Geez - I don’t know how to capture that neatly in this type of list. Well I will say I intentionally left out the second incident for gonzomax because it was rescinded. That seems more accurate that way. I updated the list for the correction of Alex’s name, and added the Hail Ants one just for completeness. And in an effort to align the columns I moved the name to the end. That still doesn’t look great but you get what you pay for.
8/18/2005 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-330807.html Liberal
2/2/2006 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-357059.html mswas
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3/13/2006 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-362637.html Evil Captor
3/27/2006 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-364787.html Weirddave
4/25/2006 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-368907.html Greathouse
6/15/2006 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-375802.html Alex_Dubinsky
6/15/2006 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-375817.html roger thornhill
10/16/2006 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-392345.html Excalibre
2/16/2007 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-408765.html scottkris
4/22/2007 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-417828.html MizGrand
4/26/2007 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-418422.html Cryptoderk
6/25/2007 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-426263.html GuyNblueJeans
11/1/2007 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-442553.html VC03
11/23/2007 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-445294.html Zambini57
11/28/2007 unknown http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-445774.html bbs2k
6/2/2008 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-470342.html Omegaman
7/10/2008 unknown http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-475080.html Two and a Half Inches of Fun
7/22/2008 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-476478.html Scrambledeggs
8/13/2008 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-479281.html Trunk
8/26/2008 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-480951.html Alex_Dubinsky
9/9/2008 1 week http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-482609.html Q.E.D
10/5/2008 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-486496.html mshar253
12/8/2008 1 week http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-496569.html Euthanasiast
2/16/2009 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-506847.html Sapo
3/2/2009 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-508932.html Baldwin
3/10/2009 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-509870.html devilsknew
6/10/2009 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-520659.html Q.E.D
7/6/2009 unknown http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-523553.html Sailor
8/8/2009 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-527432.html twilly80
8/16/2009 unknown http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-528393.html Smash
8/28/2009 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-529908.html mswas
10/28/2009 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-537687.html Xan
11/23/2009 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-541112.html Claude Remains
11/29/2009 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-541849.html Angry Lurker
1/1/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-546086.html Curtis LeMay
1/11/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-547453.html Xploder
1/11/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-547494.html Zhen'ka
1/24/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-549261.html Scissorjack
3/1/2010 60 days http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-554170.html dropzone
3/3/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-554498.html gonzomax
3/14/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-555851.html lissener
3/16/2010 1 week http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-556068.html Sleeps With Butterflies
4/5/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-558625.html Scissorjack
6/15/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-567311.html Happy Poster
7/1/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-569302.html Lekatt
11/8/2010 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-584781.html Peter Morris
12/20/2010 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-590055.html not alice
2/17/2011 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-597500.html lindsaybluth
2/19/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-597754.html Claude Remains
3/24/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-601974.html pseudotriton ruber ruber
6/1/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-610840.html Naxos
7/2/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-614795.html CitizenPained
7/2/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-614796.html Diogenes the Cynic
7/7/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-615386.html New Deal Democrat
8/4/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-618968.html Sablicious
8/28/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-622151.html Code_grey
11/4/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-630254.html The Tao's Revenge
12/16/2011 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-635157.html MPB in Salt Lake
1/4/2012 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-637339.html Jaledin
5/14/2012 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-651818.html Dufus
6/11/2012 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-654950.html cynyc
8/16/2012 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-662275.html PrettyVacant
8/29/2012 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-663756.html Budget Player Cadet
9/28/2012 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-667028.html mhendo
11/12/2012 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-672055.html Simple Linctus
11/14/2012 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-672285.html Diamonds02
12/31/2012 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-677315.html Ibn Warraq
2/22/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-683237.html Colander
3/31/2013 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-686845.html Jim's Son
4/18/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-688530.html Cheshire Human
4/21/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-688851.html Rand Rover
5/4/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-690072.html Condescending Robot
5/10/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-690570.html Nunzio Tavulari
6/5/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-692989.html colonial
8/25/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-700442.html cougar58
10/9/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-704400.html Stranger on a Train
10/13/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-704783.html NotfooledbyW
10/30/2013 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-706469.html Kable
11/15/2013 1 week http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-707885.html BrainGluttton
11/24/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-708685.html Acewiza
12/11/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-710180.html Aji de Gallina
12/17/2013 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-710690.html Sailor
1/7/2014 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-712391.html PSXer
5/27/2014 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-724499.html etv78
6/8/2014 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-725492.html Honesty
6/26/2014 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-726931.html psikeyhackr
7/1/2014 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-727448.html Superhal
9/26/2014 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-735558.html dougie_monty
10/15/2014 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-737469.html Terr
11/28/2014 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-742062.html DingoelGringo
1/8/2015 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-745735.html Pjen
1/28/2015 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-747681.html Der Trihs
3/4/2015 unknown http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-750861.html BOOM!
3/29/2015 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-753017.html MyFootsZZZ
4/10/2015 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-754176.html The Second Stone
4/12/2015 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-754312.html get lives
4/28/2015 1 week http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-755564.html Hail Ants
4/28/2015 1 week http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755564 Hail Ants
5/3/2015 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-756050.html FXMastermind
6/8/2015 3 days http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-759021.html Kobal2
9/21/2015 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-769509.html Grotonian
10/3/2015 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-770847.html BrainGluttton
11/3/2015 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-774074.html Robert163
12/5/2015 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-777252.html Stoneburg
12/20/2015 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-778715.html Vaevictis
12/28/2015 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-779391.html JohnClay
12/31/2015 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-779623.html jz78817
1/10/2016 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-780631.html Claverhouse
2/19/2016 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-784553.html Qin Shi Huangdi
2/28/2016 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-785512.html Rune
3/19/2016 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-787657.html up_the_junction
3/19/2016 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-787660.html BrightNShiny
4/9/2016 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-789945.html Armedmonkey
4/10/2016 month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-790013.html HMS Irruncible
4/21/2016 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-791016.html Hank Beecher
5/18/2016 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-793394.html Pkbites
7/26/2016 2 weeks http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-697741.html CheeseDonkey
11/15/2019 Month http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-540048.html bri1600bv
There’s at least one suspension of indefinite length that’s not on the list because it was never posted in ATMB. And there could be others.