I don't think I want a new server, matron

About This Message Board
1

Call me contrary Mary but here goes.

In a sense the following is a dumb thing to post because I don’t really know which way to jump on this. However, for a while I’ve thought a bigger server would be the best way forward but as I’m now I’m not as sure I want to add some kind of counterpoint for consideration.

I was just thinking of all the times something that has worked well in one form has lost that special, indefinable quality that made it great because the natural reaction has been “Hey, lets make it bigger so we even more of what we like”. Bigger, in my experience, ain’t necessarily better – curiously, that’s happened often. IMHO, that isn’t the same thing as decrying progress, it’s just recognising that there might be a slightly more complex dynamic in play – one worthy of, at least, contemplation.

Here’s a couple of reasons why change might not be necessarily a good thing (just throwing these in the ring to counter the overwhelming push for a new server):

Preamble
A number of things make the Board great but they all come down to the same thing: the people involved, Members, Admins and Mods. It’s this, the quality of the people contributing in a variety of guises and the sense of community generated that makes it work so well. That much most of us would probably agree on.

My points
To make the Board more accessible does make it easier for the existing community but it also encourages more and yet more people to participate. And they will because it’s great. My problem with that is it endangers the sense of community: people recognise other posters, build weird relationships, warm or avoid posting styles, this leads to DoperFests,……we all know the story. If the number of active members increases, isn’t degrading this sense of ‘community’ a natural consequence ? I think size really does matter here.

Another thought: This is partially a guess but I would imagine the server load peaks and troughs through the day. It’s a 24 hour thing but my guess is the peak load time must be about lunchtime on the East Coast (you crazy sandwich munchers) which coincides with the West Coast stirring (breakfasting / hitting the office / getting back from walking the latest fashion accessory). Point being: The Board isn’t slow per se, it’s slow at pretty specific peak time only – if I’m right.

If that is the case, wouldn’t it more expeditious to invest in a little flexibility rather than buy one huge and expensive banana ?.

Finally, at peak times it’s a real hassle getting the page to load. Only the more determined stick with it. Why do they stick with it ? Because it’s worth it to them / us. It really is a bloody nuisance but doesn’t that time barrier act as some kind of cyber Darwinism by weeding out the half-hearted, the casual passer-by’s, etc ? It’s a pain but isn’t that weeding out what we really want to happen ?

I’m all for convenience and an easy time but I’m really concerned that (and I love this old chestnut)…….we might be throwing the baby out with the bath water ? And once ‘it’s’ gone, that quality you can’t always put your finger on but it’s enough to know it’s there, ‘it’ can never coming back. Is it a risk really, really worth taking for a few extra seconds of load time ?

2

I’ve thought about this a few times myself as the number of members rises inexorably. My conclusions? Firstly the Reader wants as many people as possible to participate and secondly, isn’t it rather selfish to even consider denying a resource to others which you freely enjoy yourself?

3

Dude, in those terms the reason people want a new server is equally “selfish” i.e. they want faster access.

“…deny a resource…” It’s the Internet, did I miss something ?
I might have added that while fighting ignorance is a primary objective, GQ is but one of a number of forums. The others are primarily community orientated.

4

I think it would be better if the board returned to its roots and dropped all the “chatter” threads and the “flame” threads.
The good stuff, what isn’t available on overy other “community” from Yahoo to Xoom to Snap boards, is the topics of strange fact and inquiry.
Let Cecil be our guide. What would Cecil do? He justs posts when he has some information to impart.

5

Just a few counteraguments for you to think about, Mary :).

Purchasing a new server that can handle more posters doesn’t make the board “more accessible”. I don’t see how buying a new server will necessarily result in a sudden massive influx of new posters. Even if it did, I don’t see why that would be a bad thing.

But should Dopefests and that “place where everybody knows your name” feeling be the raison d’être for the SDMB? I don’t think so. We’re here to fight ignorance. The more crusaders who join our cause or benefit from it, the better. Besides, since I’ve been reading this board the membership has increased almost six-fold. I have observed no degradation of the community.

The SDMB isn’t just a Smart People Only club. Why would casual passers-by be less deserving of reading the information we have here? I think we were all such people at one point.

I think the communal aspect of the SDMB is a nice side-effect of our collective desires to seek knowledge and fight ignorance, but the community should never hold us back from the Dope’s real purpose. And I think if we truly want to fight ignorance, we need to reach as many people as possible.

6

Dude, that’s just what we told you :wink:

7

Shirley, a guy can play Devil’s Advocate without his middle name being mocked.

Of course there’s much merit in your response, Alpha – wouldn’t necessarily argue with you on your points but I just felt it worth trying to explore alternatives as everyone seemed willing to joining the crusade without having had a discussion exploring all the consequences. Personally, I think potential and unseen dynamics are worth taking into account if they exist and if pertinent.

Also, I was hoping to draw in a couple of misanthropes for a more rounded perspective. For example ** obfusciatrist** posted this in Anthracite’s MPSIMS fund raising thread:

and

Well, I thought it was at least interesting.

8

What would you rather see - a mandatory subscription plan, or a grass-roots voluntary effort to come up with a spot contribution to help the community out?

There’s one thing I guar-an-tee: If this Board becomes a mandatory subscription plan Board, not only will the community shrink tremendously, but a large number of persons may not be able to afford at all to come here.

There is a very nice and very sweet lady I know in California who lives in severe poverty. She collects pinecones for heating her house in a wood stove! She has a computer, and uses free net access. The Straight Dope community is very important to her, and she has many friends here. Could she afford a $20 yearly fee? Possibly, but I’d rather she did not have to make that decision.

I think we would lose a lot of college students too, and high school students. Valuable young people, whose fresh ideas, thirst for knowledge, and enthusiasm brighten this board! And I like to think that the better elements of this community help these kids out tremendously as well. I wonder just how much less painful my life in High School might have been if I had had the Straight Dope community to support me, enlighten me, and make me laugh even when I don’t want to sometimes.

One may argue that the fee could be set very small - say $5 or so per year. For practical overhead reasons, small fees often do not work out IRL. Normally, an annual fee needs to be $10 or so to be worth collecting. And yes, I know how that sounds, but it is often true.

Sometimes a fee system can become a self-fulfilling prophecy with respect to killing off a community. I can give the case of Activeworlds, where when I first joined they had a large, eclectic, vibrant community of people dedicated to creating a virtual home-away-from-home. There was a huge group of college students working to make elaborate communities, create new avatar designs, new Renderware objects, etc. Then they started charging a fee, only allowing the paid membership to build persistant properties. And then they limted the avatars. And then the actions. And then the browser. Soon, there was a very small subclass of $20 fee payers with full community access, and a large underclass of “tourists” with little to no benefits outside of what one gets from IRC.

I think if we start charging a fee of $10 to $20 per annum, this community will self-destruct. Would I pay? Yes, at least for the first year. But I know I would lose so many friends that I don’t know what might happen after that.

PS: Don’t think I haven’t been mulling over the idea of creating, paying for, and hosting a Straight Dope World as well as a companion to the Straight Dope Community. The only reason in fact I have not done anything is due to the crippling nature of the browser if you do not pay the membership fee. Thus, 99.99% of Straight Dope persons who came to see a “Straight Dope World” would get a very reduced, limited, and completely crap-tacular experience as a result - and come away seriously unimpressed. I took Jophiel on a tour of the ActiveWorld Mars as a tourist a week ago, and having the free browser sure does suck. Alas…

PPS: Before the flames come, don’t think for a minute I don’t know about the ownership issues of the name “The Straight Dope”. I was thinking along the lines of “UnaWorld”…

9

Back after a 3-month-long hiatus and ready to toss in my two-bits worth, which is (a) it’s nice to see that nothing has changed, even with an additional 3,000 or so posters, and (b) count your blessings, folks. This is still the best place on the Web, and I have to say that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. So you can sit there and file your nails while pages load, so what? Be thankful for the fine manicure that results.

[flitting away on tiny fairy feet to spread more sweetness and light, sweetness and light…]

:smiley:

10

Hey! Welcome back, dear heart!

your humble TubaDiva
Administrator

11

Um… I’ve been around long enough (almost 4 years) to say that I know where this board’s “roots” are… and there was plenty of chatter and flaming in those roots.

12

I’ve been on message boards on and off since the late 70’s. I remember “the great divide” on USENET, though I came along some time after the creation of the “net.suicide” group. It’s always interesting to watch how these things cope with increased traffic and a widening audience. When I first started reading news on USENET, it was sort of a fringe benefit available only to people characterized these days as “geeks” - people working at computer companies or in CS departments at universities.

IMO, USENET is totally unusable these days, mostly because of its no-registration, unmoderated operation (you can have a moderated usenet group, but they’re generally not). That was workable before the internet was commercialized. Even then, there were constant messes and unrestricted flame wars that people got disgusted with. But after “public access”, we wound up with idiots like the “meow brigade”, “alt.syntax.tactical”, commercial spammers and morons who can’t be squelched (kill-lists help, but you can’t train everybody not to answer the doofus). These days, the only thing I do with USENET is search it for specific stuff with dejanews.

I’m here because it reminds me of alt.folklore.urban before usenet succumbed to just too much unregulated traffic.

I wonder about subscription services - there’s an old, old one in existence called “The WELL” (The Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link). It used to be very highly regarded for its membership, the level of dialog on it, and their resistance to having jazzier interfaces or growing too fast. The down side was that some people claimed they were a bunch of elitist snobs. It is now associated with salon.com, and is a $10/mo. subscription for ability to get access to their boards:

http://www.thewell.com

I’ve never joined the WELL. Does anybody here have any experience with them?

13

Actually, let me correct myself. I think I first got on USENET in the very early 80’s. probably about '81 or so. I was at Bell Labs.

14

I find AFU’s still pretty readable. Pretty much on the same level as the SDMB…except for the fact that here troll threads are completely self-contained…

[Aside]Crossposting is evil…[/Aside]

Even with X-posting, though, the noise doesn’t over-whelm.

The other group I read is, like AFU, virtually spam-free (A few auction and sale announcements, but nothing 100% OT or misleading), and inhabited by regulars that I really like. Unlike AFU, however, we’re rather lacking in trolls. We’ve got one, but he’s really not that disruptive.

MOST of Usenet is an unreadable wasteland (Including all the groups I would be inclined to read if they were similar to the 2 I do. :/), but there’s a few oases.