Let’s see…I’ve lived in the South all of my 28 years. I’ve traveled up the Eastern coast, out west, up north, to Europe and I’ve met assholes in each and every place. Honey, it’s not limited to only Southerners.
I’ve never fucked a cousin. I have all my teeth (and they are quite straight and pearly white). I don’t drive a rusty pickup truck. I have never seen a burning cross nor known anyone who put one in someone’s yard. If I hadn’t been dating the same boy all through high school there was a black friend of mine I would have dated in a heartbeat. He was just beautiful. I saw him last summer at my 10 year reunion and he is STILL just beautiful.
I’ve never needed a DUI defense lawyer. Both my dogs are well taken care of. I do go to church but I am probably one of the most tolerant people you’ll ever meet. I don’t think people who don’t go to church eat babies.
I went to a liberal arts college. I have gay friends. I have black friends. I have Hispanic friends. I have Asian friends. My rule on friends is pretty much if you aren’t an asshole to me then we can be friends. (Guess that leaves you out).
I’ve never called anyone a “nigger” in my entire life. I don’t remember a time I’ve ever even used the word. If my child came home and said that word I would wash his mouth out with soap.
I even know what my turn signals are for and use them on a daily basis.
I find it incredibly sad regional stereotypes like these still are out there.
The South is a beautiful, wonderful place. Sure it has it’s faults…every place does but I can’t think of any other place I’d rather be.
Let’s discount Merjeek’s obvious agenda and hateful stereotypes for a minute, and focus on Matchka’s assertion that the hatespeak and stereotyping are given more public sanction in the South than in other parts of the U.S.
Because I’m interested. Every time this subject comes up, it seems as if a bunch of folks from the South jump in and beat down the offending poster, asserting that that’s not their experience.
I’m wondering how disengenous those claims are. Does this mean that you folks have never heard anyone espouse these ideas, ever? Outside of your circle of family and friends? If you have, how frequent is it? Have any of you left the South and observed any differences in the way these subject are publicly handled? Xenophon, for example, are you from Jackson? Hwve you never heard any of this stuff from anyone before?
I’m hoping for some reasoned observations around this very touchy issue, because I’m genuinely interested. Can we ignore the ad hominem attacks and discuss how prevalent or not these behaviors are in the South, as opposed to other places?
Yes, essvee I’ve heard people espouse those ideas. I’ve heard people be racist to the extreme. I went to a high school where there was a race riot one day and the end result was the principal was stabbed and school closed for 3 days.
I’ve also heard people be racist in the north, out west, etc.
I will be the first to admit the South has more problems with racism than some other places…but to imply things are so one sided here as in the OP is beyond ridiculous.
Merijeek, if you have so little respect for the people among whom you have chosen to live, if you truly hold them in that much contempt, you really should leave.
(It is interesting to note that this fool derides Southerners as ignorant racists, and yet seems ignorant of the fact that the KKK has more members in the Midwest than the Southeast, and that the Christian Identity and militia movements are centered squarely in that region. I seem to recall that the American Nazi Party had its headquarters in Indiana as well. Timothy McVeigh was a New Yorker – [Gomer Pyle voice] *Surprise, surprise, surprise! * [/Gomer Pyle voice] Take the beam out of your own eye, Merijeek.)
As a fellow Milwaukeean like Merijeek who has spent quite a bit of time down south, it really IS a whole 'nother country. I don’t know how many times I would hear a perfect stranger, someone I met literally seconds before, like a gas station clerk or waitress, drop the n-bomb or spew some racist tract about the multitude of wrongs black people have committed against white folk. Hello, people, just because I’m white doesn’t mean I’m some racist pig like yourself! I don’t think I’ve ever this happen in the north, yet it seems like fairly often in the south I’d have the pleasure of listening what could have passed for a recruitment speech for the KKK from some person I’ve never met before in my life. Racism certainly seems to be alive and supported by the majority of people down there. These are just my observations, but they certainly seem to support the statements of the OP.
essvee, I’m not from Jackson, and have never been there. I’ve lived the last 15 years a few dozen miles north of Atlanta, and I’ve lived most of my life in the south and southwest. I’ve spent months and years in northern cities (including some time in South Milwaukee, btw).
Of course, I don’t present myself as an expert on “how the North really is” on the basis of limited experience in a few cities (that would be amazingly presumptious and ill-advised, wouldn’t it?), but in my experience racist (or homophobic or anti-semetic) behavior is no more prevalent in the south than in the north. However, again IME, the bible belt wraps itself around the South like a boa constrictor, so that the socially conservative attitudes which are part and parcel of that mindset are more prevalent -and socially countenanced- down here. (Generally, anti-intellectual, homophobic and distrustful of non-Christians.)
I’m confused by your request. You note that whenever someone makes statements such as those in the OP, “a bunch” of Southerners assert this isn’t their experience. Then you want to know how prevalent this type of stuff is in the South.
If people are constantly saying that this type of stuff doesn’t happen very much, doesn’t that basically tell you that these behaviors aren’t prevalent in the South?
Somebody is exaggerating their Southern experience. Assuming everything else is equal, I’d be inclined to think it would be the person with the preconceived stereotype about the South. But that’s just me. What do I know? I’m one of those “toothless cousin-fucking, cross-burning inbreeds.”
Thanks for answering, Aries. And I’m certainly not asserting that racism et al. doesn’t exist outside the South. My question is: hatespeak aside, is what the OP, and AdmiralQ (who simply related his experience w/o insult) have to say real in the South today? How prevalent is it?
In my one trip to the South, we stopped for directions at a gas station in Florida. The attendant, with a disturbing smile of complicity, told us to drive out on past “Niggertown.” I’ve really not heard that kind of casual racial reference anywhere else.
I’m not insulting the South, or anyone who lives there. I’m not saying that you do it, or your family does it, or your friends. I just want to know: how prevalent are the attitudes and public statements related by the OP and AdmiralQ? Are they as common and casual as some think they are? Can we even discuss why, maybe?
Fair question, essvee. I’ll give you my personal experience. Is there racism in the South? Yes. Is it common? No.
The breakdown in the small town I grew up in was about 60% white, 40% black. That means, from kindergarden to high school, half of my classmates were white, half were black. So 1/2 of the class/band/team/club/whatever is not the same race as you. Now unless you’ve had it really drilled into your head from the time you were born, you don’t even think about it. Most of the time if you come across a racist person of any color around here they’re older, like in their sixties. I think my grandfather may be a closet racist but I’ve never heard him put down people of any race, certainly never used “nigger”. It’s just a hunch.
Saying that, there is a tendency for black and white people to go to different churches or bars and things like that but it’s not out of hate for each other.
Out of 100 people, you might find 2 who hate the other race. Maybe.
Though I’m a Southerner, I’m not going to pile on, but I’d like to make a point that I think has been missed, unless I’ve missed something. Jackson, MS, or Mississippi in general, is probably about the WORST and most skewed place to pass judgement on the South by. No offense to non-stereotypical Mississippians, but it’s the worst of the worst in terms of poverty, education, racism, etc. In Arkansas, we used to say “thank God for Mississippi” because Arkansas was ranked 49th in most statistical categories that pertain to relative well-being. So I would say that Jackson is not the most accurate representation of the South.
Go to your beloved Milwaukee to the poorest white folks’ neigborhood and you will likely find that the only difference is the accent.
Another thing, which is difficult to bring up delicately, but here goes anyway. States like Mississippi and South Carolina have black populations in the 30 percent range. Other Southern states in the teens and twenties. Nowhere up north, with the exception of some inner cities, has this high a percentage of black population. And a lot of white northerners just really aren’t exposed to very many black people. So I would venture that many white northerners have a rather insulated view of race relations. I’m not in any way, shape or form justifying racism, just pointing out that this has an affect on people’s attitudes.
So essentially, it’s down to poverty and ignorance. These things aren’t limited to the South, but are more prevalent there. We could go into the reasons for this, but that’s another thread. And people from the South are far less miffed about the Civil War than Reconstruction, which is one of the ugliest chapters in American history.
I spent the first ten years of my life in a Deep South state and occasionally go back to visit the abundance of family members who live there. The OP is right on the money, I wouldn’t argue with a word of it.
The problem of the South isn’t the stereotypical quriks like cousin-marrying or moonshine distilling. I’ve never seen any of that. The problem is pure and simple ignorant scorn of different ethnicities, cultures, and political and religious viewpoints. The vast majority of Southerners, while perhaps not refusing to speak to black, still believe that there are actual differences between the races. Few will admit that life in other first-world countries is just as comfortable as in the US. The believe that the United States is specially blessed over all other nations is common. Jingoism runs rampit. People who speak languages other than English are often seen as freaks.
Unfortunately, the ignorance and xenophobia of Southerners has shown through all the more since I have moved to Europe. Americans in general have little global perspective, but people from the North are incredibly clued up compared to the can’t-think-beyond-the-state insularity of Southerners.
I’m speaking of the Deep South. The fellow from North Carolina who took offense shouldn’t have. North Carolina is practically Northern in outlook compared to Arkansas, Mississipi, or Alabama.
Sauron, what I meant is that is seems that the Southerners are quick to assert that they, their friends and family, don’t behave like that, and oftentimes the OP is attacked as a racist himself.
What I’m asking is for folks to look outside their immediate experience, and to try to stay even-tempered about it, and give some answers that negate or support some of the ideas, even prejudices, outsiders have about the South. I just find it hard to believe, and again, Merijeek did himself no favors in the hateful way he presented the OP, that so many of us outsiders have had these kind of encounters in the South and nowhere else.
This isn’t a loaded question, although I can see how it could be construed that way. I’d love to see people talking about how their neighborhood, their school, their town, was free of these attitudes and behaviors. Then perhaps we can add it all up at the end and see if these suppositions, these stereotypes, are rooted in truth or myth.
I also ask that people who have had these experiences outside the South speak up as well. Or not. It’s not my thread. But I do see a chance here for some ignorance to be dispelled. Thanks.
Thanks, Bruce. You’re from a small town in which part of South Carolina? Maybe we can map this stuff out a little, see how much of a difference between Jackson, MS and other Southern places exist, if any. Thanks again for your fair-minded reply. Question, your statement that out of 100 people, about 2 will hate the other race. In your experience, is this true for blacks too, or were you referring to just whites?
Left Hand of Dorkness, I’ve worked with Serbians, Russians, Indians, Nigerians and the deaf to name a few. I’ve never heard anything bad about them, though I did rag on my friend from Nigeria that when he got really excited he sounded like jar jar binks.
But I understand your point, yes. However, according to a TV show I saw a few years back, Vermont is considered one of the most accepting states for immigrants in the union. Like I said, if you want see the mud slung about in that state, homosexuality is definitely the topic to bring up, especially when mentioned in conjunction with civil unions. I won’t comment on other northern states since Vermont was all I really concerned myself with.
Nevada on the other hand, from what I’ve seen Mexicans seem to draw the ire, but it seems mostly centered around them not having insured vehicles.
It wasn’t THAT rusty! And…he finally got rid of it and bought himself a new truck that doesn’t have a spot of rust on it.