I don't think people around here realize what the South is really like

The BBQ Pit
81

I’ve lived in the South all sixty years. I agree with NothingMan that AdmiralQ’s story sounds totally bogus. I have run into racism in my time, but nothing as in-your-face as that. And I am also from Tennessee.

The open racism that I have been witness to since the Civil Rights movement of the 1950’s and 1960’s has generally been from some economically deprived whites. In their need to feel superior to somebody, they put Blacks and Hispanics down.

Strange, but the first person that I thought of was a friend who fits the stereotype of living in a trailer and driving a rusted out truck. She is a wondrous raw-boned woman with more courage in her little finger than most saints I’ve read about. She uses the word nigger not with any apparent intended maliciousness, but out of habit. What makes the situation so strange is that she is originally from Pittsburgh. Yet she fits that Southern stereotype.

Speaking of Pittsburgh and stereotypes, I couldn’t help but laugh about the pawn shops. The lyrics to a song popular in my childhood began with “There’s a pawn shop on a corner in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania…”

http://www.lyricsxp.com/lyrics/p/pittsburgh_pennsylvania_guy_mitchell.html

I have one friend from my home town who lives nearby that would probably still feel comfortable in using the word nigger around me and in ridiculing them if I had not finally told her that her language offended me. She is xenophobic in general, but does not have the religious bigotry often associated with Southerners. (I do see that much more often than racial bigotry.)

Maybe a person “exudes” something that lets a stranger feel comfortable in making racial remarks around them. If so, I don’t exude. In the last fifteen years I did have one stranger make a comment about Hispanics and all it took was a lifted highbrow and she backed down.

The only times that I have consistently felt uncomfortable in the presence of racists over the last few years has been in North Carolina. We have distant family relations who do not fit the stereotype. The are wealthy and well-educated. And they have assumed that because I am from the South that I am open to their bigoted xenophobic cattiness. The man especially seems to feel free to belittle just about everyone who hasn’t been as fortunate as he. For the sake of the rest of the family, I bite my tongue and mutter “now, now” under my breath and let it go. But he still doesn’t fit the Southern stereotype either. He is from New England and migrated to one of the Northern enclaves in N.C.

The “quiet” bigotry that I spoke of is practiced by the middle and upper classes somewhat. There is not very much interracial dating and marriage. Also, I think that Blacks are probably watched more carefully for shoplifting in the malls. (One Black child was told to leave a mall this week because he wore a jacket and a hood. It caused enough of a stir that his being asked to leave the mall made the news.)

I am an eleventh generation Southerner, the daughter of a civil rights activist and a graduate of Vanderbilt University. I taught in inner city high schools for twenty years. I consider myself just as typical of the South as any of her other sons and daughters.

I wonder if the OP’s anti-Southern viewpoint has anything to do with his need to feel superior to somebody.

82

Most of the large scale manufacturing left in the United States has moved to the South* while the North became dependent on all of their electronic gizmos. While they play pac-man on their Gameboys, out factories are turning out the weapons of war. We did not lose, we simple allowed you to rebuild our nation until it was time to strike.
*of course I have no cites for any of this, it has all been secret

83

I think it’s interesting that no one seems to agree on what the South actually is. If it was in the Confederacy, then it should count as a Southern state no matter how much it has changed in the last 150 years. We can’t say that North Carolina is not in the South when Richmond, Virginia was, for a time, the Capital of the Confederacy. (Virginia is north of North Carolina.) And although Southerners understand the difference between the southern part of Florida and the northern part, it was still part of the Confederacy.

Or should we just eliminate everything that doesn’t fit the stereotype?

84

Cite.

Alabama is taking over.

As previously mentioned, South Carolina has BMW. Yes, the South is building an Axis with Germany and Japan.

Yee@Hoo.mil

85

Whoops! I didn’t know that would happen.

Mods! Have I done wrong?

86

I moved to South Carolina 3 years ago after spending the first 28 years of my life in the north. Like some of the other people in this post, I do not want to paint all southern people with one broad brush. However, I can tell you that I heard the word nigger used more in the first 2 months I lived hear than my entire previous 28 years. I know when my wife started her current job in a factory she was cornered by a group of coworkers and asked if she ever had sex with a nigger. Now that they know she has not I guess she is “clean” enough for all these married men to hit on every night. I can tell you that just last week I was at my sister-in-laws home. She had a friend over and they were telling me that they do not go to a certain department store now because that is where all the black people go. Maybe Greenville is a little more extreme because Bob Jones University is located here.

I know, I know…I am sure I will be told not to let the door hit me in the ass on my way back up north. That is sort of a “if you don’t like our racism you can just leave” attitude. But this is my home now, and will be for many years to come. So I just try to ignore it.

Anyway, that is just my $.02.

87

I think the real problem here is urban versus rural. The South tends to be more rural than the Northeast. The population is less urbanized, in that many people are the first generation living in cities. People in rural areas tend to remain more insular in misbeliefs. This vanishes when the population becomes urbanized as is forced to confront them more often. An added compounding factor is the diversity of the population throughout the South. As others have pointed out, maybe rural Northerners didn’t have much of a reason to form an opinion about blacks because there were none of them around. Just like Southerners haven’t had reasons to form bad opinions about French Canadians or Pacific Islanders.

I grew up in Houston. It is a strange situation. It is a pretty liberal city, at least on the surface. We have had a run of Democratic mayors (even though it is a nonpartisan race). The runoff tomorrow is the culmination of a campaign run almost entirely on diversity, environment, and mass transit issues. The politics of the city is inclusive and quite liberal, but sometimes, the old white boy’s club and surprising social conservatism pops up unexpectedly. Go to the outskirts of the city and this increases dramatically: Tom DeLay is the representative for the far Western suburbs of the city while Sheila Jackson Lee is the representative for much of the central city – look up their records if this confuses you.

I’m not linking social conservatism with racism. It is just that for different reasons, rural living tends to protect a worldview from challenge. This leads to natural conservatism. It also leads to other less tolerable behaviors like racism.

That’s all that there is to it, I think. If you look at urban areas of the South, you find very liberal and progressive cities, just like anywhere. This increases as the surrounding areas become less rural. Look at Miami for an example. Or Dallas or Houston or Atlanta. Look at Washington, DC, which at least historically is part of the South. In rural areas, old beliefs die hard. This carries over in smaller cities which are surrounded by rural areas. I think you will find the same is true anywhere in the world in a similar situation.

88

Don’t worry guys… in a few more decades “The South” will live only in marketing, history books and old people’s nostalgia, waves of migration and cultural assimilation will do their job and we’ll all be nice homogenous pretty McAmericans. It is happening already. All racism will be nice and closeted… entrenched in our power and class system with dashes of pre approved PC hate to satiate the masses, at least nobody will say the N-word (unless it’s ok). Southern accents will disappear, don’t want to sound like and ignorant racist yokel do we? Southern food will be too unhealthy to eat (better just eat some fast food instead), southern pastimes eradicated for being too too uncouth and uncivilized… we’ll all watch corporate sponsered professional sports and shop for our social and spiritual needs. The Civil War will be about slavery, no further clarification needed. Everybody will be from somewhere else and feel no real desire to identify with anywhere in particular… after all every city has the same Starbucks, Walmart, Red Lobster and Bank of America right? Our suburban McMansions will runneth over.The Federal government will take care of us all. Really.
I just… can’t… wait.

89

Thelos makes a interesting point re: economic standing of a place/ignorance and bigotry of a place. Anyone care to colloborate?

I’m in WV, second only to MS in poverty AFAIK, with one of the highest dropout rates and one of the lowest percentages of degree holders. I do want to be quick to point out that WV is mostly white – there aren’t a whole heck of a lot of non-white people TO discriminate against, so my analysis (based on my observations and personal experiences, mind you) might be a bit skewed.

WV is basically three states in one: you have the Charleston-Huntington metro area, everywhere south of there, and everywhere north of there.

I’m in the metro area and pretty much nobody blinks an eye when they see an interracial couple. There are many churches that have people of all sorts of colors that attend. (It’s hard to find an all white or all black church around here.) I’m trying to think of any racially motivated incidents here in the past 5 years and I’m drawing a blank. [We did have a horrible thing happen about 3 years ago where a guy walking out of a gay bar was attacked and beaten nearly to death by 2 SOB’s (who had a history of attacking random people for no reason). Thing is, the guy wasn’t even gay, he had just been hanging with some friends there, but the guys that attacked him did attack because they thought he was gay. Outcry was huge, and those two guys are locked up now, thank God.] Sure, WV isn’t an oasis that gays flock to, but people here aren’t so opposed to homosexuality that they’re going to condone violence. People here call a spade a spade, for the most part.

In the southern part of the state it’s all about whether or not you’re union. Are ya black and union? You’re in. White and non-union? DIE DIE DIE, you sumbitch!!! (I think this is because in the days of Matewan, everyone had to stick together and the union was made up of whites, Italians and blacks.) Southern WV does have its fair share of stereotypical rednecks, though, who talk some smack every now and then, but they’re mostly all bark and no bite. They’re mostly the “stick with your own kind” types and not Klansmen wannabes or anything.

I don’t know about northern WV and it doesn’t matter because as far as the rest of the state is concerned, they may as well be Marylanders :smiley:

90

Since your post follows mine… I have to ask. Was that statement directed at me? I’ll just pretend you’re referring to someone more mean hearted until you clarify.

91

Yeah, yeah. I know we may as well be from DC or Baltimore. The panhandle of WV is a pretty much how you describe your area. We have a lot of people like me who are from somewhere else. We work in DC or Balt, and we live in WV. Higher education and a diversified population tends to cut down on silly stuff.

From what I can tell, mixed race couple are very common. I haven’t noticed any racism, so if it’s here, it must be low key. What I have noticed is sexism. The locals have silly ideas of what a woman’s place is and what women’s work is. I just laugh. On gay issues. I dunno. People seem pretty accepting of my gf and me. But I just though that was because WV is a state that tends to “live and let live”.

92

Pretty much, Theios.

I think it’s laziness, in a way. To get all worked up would involve going outside, going down the hill, driving on those twisty roads, driving UP the hill, over the mountain, down the holler, etc. Too much trouble and plus you could get carsick.

93

One thing y’all are forgetting.

The black folk can be quite racist, too. I’ve had black friends castigated for being “too dark” or “too light”. That knife cuts both ways.

I’m a native Mississipian. I have lived in the Jackson metro area for 15 years. If it’s any concern of yours, we are making progress.

Currently, the Mississippi Legislature has the HIGHEST NUMBER of black elected legislators in THE NATION. Right her in Jackson we have a number of interracial churches. Bet you wouldn’t be there.

Mississippi knows her woes. We know that we, the people, must take the journey to drag ourselves out.

and, if you dont like it … as others have said . . Dont let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you.

94

This was something I wanted to make clear in a previous post, and forgot. Thanks for bringing it up.
The nasty ignorance and racism that rages in where I grew up is definately not one way. It seems that the whites think the blacks are trash. The blacks think the whites are trash. Both think that the migrant worker population is sub-human. It’s just a whole lot of uglyness.

I honestly like my hometown and the South in general. There is a lot of worthwhile customs and charm that needs to be preserved. We just need to figure out how to stamp out all this silly stuff without losing our heritage.

95

I, too, Live in upstate South Carolina and have seen more religous intolerance than anything else. It’s generally understood that if you are not religious, it would not be a good idea to be friends with someone who is.

I’ve also had offhand comments about “sex with a nigger.” My best friends mom married a black man after her divorce from his father. What did his father do? Demand custody of his son!!! No son of his was going to live with a “nigger”.

And don’t EVEN get me started on Bob Jones. The administration of that college oozes with hate.
.

96

I’m not sure if my experiences will help/add to the discussion or not. On page 1 you’d asked about norherners from places with a small black population and their experiences.

I’m from Alaska, a fairly wealthy state. Our “median age of success” is about 36 compared to the national one of 52 years of age.

The population of blacks in Anchorage is at about 18k (from the 2000 Anchorage Indicators, a census based publication). I grew up on the "rich side of town (we weren’t rich, just middle class), and went to the “snob” HS. There were about 20-30 black students, and I don’t remember one that wasn’t really popular and talented in some way (sports or band, or honor roll etc).

I used to always be so shocked at how blacks were portrayed in the media from the south and at how southerners seemed to treat the whole situation.

I am glad to know that it’s not really like that. Not sure if that helps from a perspective of northerner who has never lived in the south, or not. :slight_smile:

97

I know. I am an atheist and my wife is agnostic. Her family members are all Baptist (half of the Bob Jones flavor). People look like they are going to faint when they find out I am not part of the flock.

98

All this Southern racist shit is kinda boring. Everybody is racist.
The big difference is that there are some who are not ashamed of it.

99

Hah! On what do you base that gem? Yes, Asheville has lots of transplanted Northerners. Yes, Asheville has a fairly large LGBT population. Yup, we have a relatively artistic community. And, yes, we are a Southern city. South of the Mason-Dixon line? Check. Supported the Confederacy during the Late Unpleasantries? Check. And if you ever get out of the downtown area, into places like Leicester and Sandy Mush, you’ll find plenty of people who were born and raised here.

Are you saying that relatively progressive communities such as Asheville aren’t Southern because they don’t fit stereotypes about the South? I’ve lived my whole life in the urban South, and it’s pretty damn insulting to hear that because we have immigrants, cultural institutions, etc., we can’t possibly be Southern.

100

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Merijeek *

Ya see, little things like the Constitution don’t matter to these people. To people like county.

After all, as he said in the thread on the obscenity of the word “gay”:

“Oh yeah, what if that is school policy supported by 75% of the people in the school district?”

Just think, with that kind of attitude we can stop negroes from voting!

QUOTE]

Marjie, this is a discussion board. One reason to ask a question is to provoke thought and discussion. By that question I was not expressing an opinion or attitude; I was asking a question.

It must be extremely frustrating for you to live in Jackson, MS.