But did it have a meat-based stock?
That’s a pretty big difference. We all have different metabolic challenges, but for most people, extra potatoes, or worse, an extra slice of white bread, is worse for them than the same calories from meat. And the new and popular fake meat products (beyond, etc.) are (intentionally) nutritionally similar to meat. So switching to those doesn’t help anyone’s health.
It’s always harder to convince people to save the world than to convince them to protect themselves.
Probably. 
I’ve never understood my gf’s “vegetable soup”. Sure, it has a zillion different veggies in it, but it also is a meat broth with beef in it.
I would call that beef vegetable soup.
Isn’t that pretty standard for vegetable soup? I mean, vegetable soup was a thing long before vegetarianism was common, so of course most recipes for it were developed by people who weren’t vegetarians, and most of them were probably thinking “how can I make something that tastes good when I can only afford a little meat?” or “how do I use up all this stuff in the kitchen without wasting anything?” rather than trying to make a vegetarian-friendly meal.
Right—and doesn’t that relate back to the discussion earlier in the thread about what is or is not a “vegetable,” and the relationship between vegetarianism and vegetables, and how if you didn’t know any better you’d think the word “vegetarian” should mean someone who eats a lot of vegetables (peas, carrots, broccoli, etc.).
Right. Vegetarians wouldn’t eat a beef-based vegetable soup, but that doesn’t make it not a vegetable soup. If I had a hankering for vegetable soup I would first ask the server if it was beef based, and I would expect the answer to be yes more often than not.
We have this problem a lot at Chinese restaurants, where the concept of vegetarianism hasn’t really crossed the cultural divide. Many Chinese menus have a “vegetarian” section that is actually a vegetables section, because many of the items aren’t vegetarian. I’m assuming that’s just a translation problem but we’ve learned to just avoid unknown Chinese restaurants. “General Tso’s chicken but with tofu” can often come out as a combination tofu and chicken dish if you’re not very specific.
That’s slightly supported, but only slightly, by my idea of “vegetable soup”. While it would definitely not contain chunks of meat, and, not being a vegetarian, I wouldn’t even think about where the stock came from, I would assume that it would contain some sort of starch like potatoes, while not being the bulk of the soup. Although, to be fair, a soup with no meat chunks or starches would still be a vegetable soup, while one consisting of mostly starches would not. So I guess I would concede that starches are in sort of a grey area, because they don’t instantaneously de-vegetablize a soup like whole meat would, but a certain percentage of starch would.
Even if there are cubes of meat, if the primary focus of the soup is vegetables, I’d call it vegetable soup.
I often put some ham or smoked turkey in my pea soup, and i make an awesome bean soup (kidney, white kidney, and butter beans) that also includes several vegetables and a broth that is usually chicken, unless i know I’m cooking for vegetarians.
I think soup is typically named for what’s most important to the flavor, not for what isn’t in it.
I have to admit, to me vegetable soup should be vegetarian. I’m not a vegetarian, so I don’t know why I think so, but yeah. I’d be surprised to find it made with beef or chicken or whatever broth.
Nevermind.
I would differentiate between vegetable and beef vegetable. And especially if there were vegetarians eating.
I would guess most fast food restaurants now offer a vegetarian ersatz sandwich. Indian food is long accustomed to serving those who do not eat meat. Eating fish likely allows Japanese food and chip shops. AFAIK many Thai restaurants have options, maybe more so than Chinese or Vietnamese - though I would expect to see Buddha Bowls. Any medium city likely has at least one vegetarian and vegan restaurant which presumably has choices. Italian food involves antipasto and there are many meatless sauces. Is it really that hard in this day and age to find a restaurant without much choice? I grant “vegetable and cheese” subs are probably bland and excluding dairy and fish is more limiting - but still? They seem to be greatly multiplying.
Most fast food restaurants do not offer a vegetarian sandwich. McDonald’s, to name the biggest. Burger King has the Impossible Whooper, White Castle has Impossible sliders, Wendy’s trialed a black bean burger in my city but it didn’t stick around. So when we’re traveling and want fast food it’s basically Burger King.
Depending on how you define “medium cities” they can be hit or miss. My WAG would be at 300k or fewer options get pretty limited. Most smaller cities have fast food, bars (pub food, meat heavy), Chinese (see my comment above about the culture barrier), pizza, and one Italian restaurant that everyone swears is the best homemade Italian but is barely edible. So when we’re traveling our options dwindle. BK, crappy pizza, veggie sub at a gas-station Subway. If we’re lucky we’ll be driving near a college town.
It’s hard to eat Indian food in the car if you want to grab something quick, but otherwise it’s a safe bet. Thai restaurants are almost as good as Indian restaurants, although I tend not concern myself if a curry might have fish sauce. Vietnamese restaurants are doable but their tofu seems reluctantly added to the menu and all their best stuff is out of the question. Fast casual places are pretty good but again, you typically go from 5 protein flavors down to 1. Hope you like that 1.
It just gets repetitive, you know? At your typical non-vegetarian restaurant you lose probably 90% of the entrees, and even when there are a couple of options, one of them is a goddamn black bean burger. So yeah, the situation isn’t dire as long as you live in civilization, but it requires some effort and sometimes not being terribly picky.
Surely homemade food is usually better than fast food anyway? True, not always, and not usually an option if travelling. But a picnic style meal might be with a little effort.
I was looking through a vegetarian cookbook today. Almost every recipe involved taking ersatz vegetarian ground beef and spicing it up so that one could not supposedly tell it was a meat free dish. Not sure how this is better than the many great recipes from The Moosewood, which I use for guests who don’t partake.
We mostly cook Indian for vegetarian guests, but we have two good vegetarian soups that have a more European seasoning profile. And hey, for lunch, pancakes and bagels are both veggie. Or, you know, i really like a good pb&j.
You seem to be missing my point. Yes, there is an immediate effect. But that immediate effect is not on the person performing the action. There still is a level of abstraction needed to realize that the reason you don’t steal from others is that you don’t want them stealing from you, let alone that a community where people steal from each other will function poorly.
AFAIK, this information was not provided by the earliest moral codes we find. Societies didn’t seem to care if you knew why stealing was bad for the community and thus for you. They just said “Do not steal.” Or “do not steal because you will be punished.”
Sure, you can say that collective action requires an even further level of abstraction. But I think you were overlooking the abstraction even in the most basic of moral codes.
Back when I worked in the Chicago Loop in the 90’s and 00’s the local Burger King would take orders for a “Hindi special” - a Whopper hold the beef. So it was basically a cheese sandwich with toppings. Would not make a vegan happy but could qualify as vegetarian. Also worked for people who didn’t eat cow for religious reasons. But that’s probably not what most people think of when they say “vegetarian”.
Don’t you have McPlant over there? I often, but not always, go for this. Note that a burger is already a form of processed food, so I’m not concerned particularly whether it is processed meat, or something else in a patty. So long as it doesn’t fall apart in your hand.
No, and… I’m guessing you didn’t eat a whole lot of them either:
The McPlant was tested in the United Kingdom in October 2021, with expansion to California and Texas
In July 2022, Australia started serving the McPlant in Victoria as a limited run item.
According to SFgate, the U.S launch of the McPlant has been terminated.
Is it still available in the UK?