This is another assumption of many Democrats - “If only the voters truly knew or understood what we’re for, they’d vote overwhelmingly for us.” Sometimes people simply reject something, period.
Many anti-LGBT people, for instance, won’t be dissuaded by an hour or week of pro-LGBT lectures and seminars. They already understand what’s at stake, the whys, hows and ifs perfectly well. They just simple stand for what they stand for.
It is more than Fox. It is social media, it is Sinclair Broadcasting, it is right wing radio.
You are probably correct that they probably did not think that this was a population to be concerned about believing the lies, but based on what you have said here, they were wrong. From what you have said, these people believed quite a number of counterfactual things that have been spouted by the right wing disinformation complex.
No, but that wasn’t what the message was. The message was, “You are currently out of a job, cannot put food on your table, here are some other options.” As well as, “Your job is not sustainable long term, would you like your children to have better jobs?”
I’ll agree that the message that they received was the one that you are saying, but that was not the message given.
Question, do you believe that that was the message of the Democratic party? If so, why do you believe this? If not, then how would you suggest we counter the lies?
That’s not the assumption here.
It is clear that they were not responding to the actual messages, according to @flurb. Maybe they would not respond positively to the Democrats messages either, but they have not actually been given that chance.
Fair enough, bigots are not going to respond to much of what the Democrats have to say. Are you saying that these people voted against Biden out of bigotry?
Except for the fact that Democratic candidates didnt use those slogans, no more than GOP candidates used “Sieg Heil!”.
Only by name, the previous INS has been around since 1933.
Which was my point.
ICE doesn’t fill a need that was not filled before. If it were abolished, it would not leave a gap.
However, the policies of ICE have been far more ranging and discriminatory than other immigration and border agencies, and that is why people are against it.
Maybe things are different in your circle, but Fox News has a stranglehold on media… with Fox News viewers. I have never found a Fox News viewer that will watch ANYTHING else, and they will only listen to RW-propaganda radio (Rush, Hannity, etc). They are only hearing that distorted message by choice.
Yes, but people are motivated by far more than merely what they hear from the lips of the candidates themselves. All sorts of things from ‘the enemy camp’ affect their views. Comments in comments sections affect them. Things their neighbors or coworkers say, affect their views. Family affects views. Indeed, the words of a candidate himself/herself might only amount to a small fraction of what propels voters to vote for or against him/her.
That’s not fair.
They watch OANN, and War Room with Steve Bannon. They will watch youtube videos and other social media platforms that reinforce their beliefs.
They have a wide ranged to choose from, all the way from White Supremacist liars to Neo-Nazi conspirators.
Right, which is why blaming the Democrats for their messaging is pretty silly, when as you say, they don’t pay attention to that, but rather to unrelated things that reinforce their opinion.
Well, yes, you could abolish ICE by again changing it’s name and bring back the INS. What real good would that do??
It isnt ICE- it is the current administration.
It wasn’t just a name change, their mission changed a bit as well. It was split into 3 branches.
Keep USCIS, and CBP.
That too, but ICE was founded to by adversarial to immigration. Even during Obama’s admin, it was problematic.
Even if a Biden admin gets it under control, it will still be there as an agent that could be used if another Trump gets in.
Indeed, ICE was founded on an “us v. them” paradigm – in the restructuring of the immigration/border security agencies, the “NS” part of INS was sent off to USCIS, the border control itself went to CBP, and ICE was to be reframed as the branch that would track, find and catch future equivalents of the 9/11 attackers as they moved throughout the country, which is how come HSI – Homeland Security Investigations – is part of ICE. However, the feared mass terrorist infiltration was effectively prevented from happening very early in the game, and now what? HSI can make itself useful re: money laundering/cybercrime/human trafficking, but other parts of ICE carried on the old habits of La Migra.
Some of it is unquestionably fraud, fake vote for Trump. How do we know this because Trump accuses others of what he is doing, time and time again. It’s a typical tactic of distracting and also condemning his actions by making other bear the consequences of them. Trump is not the only one to do this, but is typical of those in power who do wrong. I suspect the vote for Biden was much more of a landslide then just decisive that we see.
I’m a Democrat. I blame myself for the problems in America, since I think I should be doing something about them, but I’m too apathetic to do anything, so I blame myself some more.
However, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to want to pay taxes so the government can fix those of other people’s problems that it makes sense for them to fix . In particular, I am willing to pay taxes so the government can make sure that everyone in this country has health insurance. This is partly because I have experienced not having health insurance and sympathize with people in that situation. Now that I have Medicare (a program created by Democrats), not having to worry about health insurance has made my life much more pleasant. But as long as many people in this country have no or inadequate health insurance, the cost of health care will continue to rise and could eventually threaten Medicare. People who can’t afford to pay their hospital bills drive up the cost of health care. People who are reluctant to go to the doctor and end up in the emergency room drive up the cost of health care. The rising cost of health care drives up health insurance costs. Increased health insurance costs are a burden on businesses and decrease their profitability. I think this is a problem that government can fix and I am happy to contribute my taxes to their efforts.
I’m not sure. Trump getting ten million more votes is deeply screwed up. its basically cemented that half of America is totally deranged.
I remember not long after Obama won, being a shitty person counted against you in elections. several gop senators lost elections due to comments about legitimate rape, or Christine O’Donnell and the witch stuff. now nothing counts against you if you’re a republican.
It’s nuts and I don’t know how it happened. who looks at the last four years of incompetence and says I want more? it needs to be professionally studied.
one theory thar may be a factor is the parasite stress hypotheses. when an infectious disease is running rampant, people naturally become more conformist and hostile to outsiders which makes them more open to authoritarianism. education and wealth make people reject authoritarianism while things like infectious diseases make them crave it.
Maybe covid played a role in trumps support but I don’t know. I just know the American people have lost their credibility.
The argument that “an incompetent, ignorant, immature, bigoted corrupt vain narcissist responsible for numerous American deaths gained significantly more votes than last time and hit 73 million in total, but it’s OK, even good, because we got a few million more than he did,” sounds rather…weak and odd.
That’s a bit like someone saying, “Yes, I have a deadly staph blood infection running amok in my veins, but I’m chill with it because my white blood cell count is increasing as well.”
It’s a lot better than not getting more votes than him.
Did Sinclair Broadcasting support Hillary in the last election? Why do you think these people voted for her if they only watch Fox news?
Exactly.
There are plenty of towns and cities that have already lost their major industrial employer, and some of them must be in areas run by Democrats. Have they tried retraining the people put out of work en masse, and how did it go?
Don’t our intelligence agencies combat radicalism (Islam, et al) by employing bright, educated, and trained operatives to understand the language in which the radical propaganda is couched, and then to add contradictory messaging using that same language, particularly in online forums ?
Democrats are losing the war of facts, ideas, plans, statistics, and information. This is not the language in which this battle is being fought.
It’s knowable (if frightening) where Trump supporters are getting their information. It’s equally knowable what language is used on those sources (ie, simplistic, reductive, inflammatory, hyperbolic, etc.).
Policy wonks shouldn’t be scripting the messaging of the Democrats. PsyOps types should.
I’ve got one of those family members (don’t we all ?) who I truly love deeply, but she’s also simple, religious, and conservative. She posts all the RW nonsense memes, and I’ve learned that there’s nothing I can do about them but let them fly by unanswered.
One always sticks with me:
I could spend hours telling my beloved family member everything that’s wrong with this meme, and then explaining to her the quantitative ways in which the countries where Democratic Socialism rules the roost … are markedly better than the US.
But you may as well stand a broom in the corner and talk to it. It isn’t the language that she speaks.
And … if we’re explaining, we’re losing. If we’re defending, we’re losing. If we’re constantly in fact-checking mode, we’re losing.
@Ulfreida has been posting a lot about nonviolent communication.
Which is fine.
But it wouldn’t be my first choice if I were running this thing. You have to meet people where they are. The Trump supporters are effectively speaking Portuguese, and Democrats seem to think that continuing in English … but getting increasingly louder … will create effective communication.
It won’t.