I feel guilty for paying taxes

Great Debates
1

Woo, my first thread since actually paying to post here. Let’s hope I did everything right and am not digging any holes I’m not aware of. Go easy.

I don’t want this to devolve into a debate on whether the particular policies I mention are justifiable. What matters to the thread is that they are not justifiable to me, and what my actions that follow should be.

…

I live in the United States. My country has a number of policies with which I disagree, from the war in Iraq to all forms of welfare from social security to farm subsidies. To me, my money props up a coercive and sometimes harmful state. I vote in every election and write my congressmen, so I know I am playing an active role in attempting to reduce the harm, but dollars speak louder than words.

I currently pay my taxes in full, not out of any sort of duty to my country, but out of fear of imprisonment if I do not. Every death in Iraq and “enemy combatant” held in a secret prisons causes me to wince in the knowledge of my complicity. My only justification is that I am being forced to give my support under the barrel of a gun.

Question in a Nutshell: Am I, ethically, off the hook (so to speak) for my contribution to the harm since it was coerced from me? Do I have an ethical duty to refuse to pay taxes to support policies I do not agree with, or would it be simply not required but better?

My Answer in a Nutshell: It would be better, though not obligatory, to peacefully protest by not cooperating. However, I believe that by accepting the threat and cooperating, I have a duty to minimize more harm than I have contributed to while I walk free. It is this reason that has me training to be a nurse to go work with Nurses Without Borders (I’m not smart enough to be a doctor).

2

That is a tough one, it is very hard to live without paying taxes. Despite disagreeing with policies of your current country, you also benefit in many ways from the security that the US provides you and your family.

A feeble protest that lands you in jail for tax evasion is of no value to yourself or the Iraqis you are sorry for. Becoming a Nurse and joining Nurses Without Borders would be a great way to serve humanity. If you are looking for absolution for the minor sin of paying taxes, you have mine at least.

Good luck, the world needs more Nurses and Nurses Without Borders is a great organization.

Jim (Welcome to the Straight Dope, I hope you enjoy your stay)

3

[QUOTE=ForumBot]
Question in a Nutshell: Am I, ethically, off the hook (so to speak) for my contribution to the harm since it was coerced from me? Do I have an ethical duty to refuse to pay taxes to support policies I do not agree with, or would it be simply not required but better?
[/QUOTE]

You can’t just ask this question as a simple “is it okay to pay taxes that support the Iraq War” question.

Your taxes also go to supplying poor people with food, medicine and shelter. Your taxes go towards supporting the basic structures that hold up democracy. Your taxes go towards educating children. Your taxes go towards the maintenance of sewer systems, transportation infrastructure, parks, and other good things. Your taxes go towards any number of positive things. Were you to refuse to pay taxes you would be refusing to pay for those things as well.

Were you to refuse to pay taxes, the only ethical stance, IMHO, would be to leave the country. You’re otherwise effectively not a conscientious objector, but simply a deadbeat; you’d be benfitting from all the positives of government spending, like sewers and parks and welfare and court systems, while other people paid for them.

Furthermore, leaving the country is not necessarily a perfect option either. If you feel the United States is engaged in things you dislike it could be argued that you have a responsibility to remain there and do things to convince your fellow citizens to change the way the government acts. If everyone who thought your way were to leave, the USA would be MORE likely to continue doing the things you don’t want it to do, because everyone who agrees with you will have left. However, to participate in the democractic process with any degree of integrity you must do your share to maintain the apparatus of the state you’re a citizen of.

Practically speaking, you can’t simply shrug off your responsbilities to your fellow citizens every time a President or a Congress comes along that you don’t like. If that were okay, then by now nobody would be paying taxes.

4

you could ask Thoreau how well it worked for him.

I would say that my Answer in a Nutshell is, well, yes, because of the reasons stated above for other governmental functions you do support, and furthermore, because not paying taxes is an ultimately self-damaging and futile gesture on your part. Better ways to fight the system are exactly what you’re attempting to do, give back on your own free will to help everybody around you, it’s a FAR more commendable effort than a feeble attempt to not give the government money that will ultimately be so dilute as to zero it’s moral worth (between the war and social security and medicare, for example).

5

[QUOTE=RickJay]
If everyone who thought your way were to leave, the USA would be MORE likely to continue doing the things you don’t want it to do, because everyone who agrees with you will have left.
[/quote]

I want to remind you that this is your way of thinking for me. I never suggested leaving the United States.

[QUOTE=RickJay]
Practically speaking, you can’t simply shrug off your responsbilities to your fellow citizens every time a President or a Congress comes along that you don’t like. If that were okay, then by now nobody would be paying taxes.
[/quote]

As a libertarian (uh oh, I’m in trouble now :smiley: ), I will only support a government that is truly opt-in, which criteria the United States government (nor any other in the world) does not fulfill. If everyone thought my way, they could opt-out of their government and choose one which suited them better, without having to relocate their entire life and lose their private property because of some entity what laid claim to an imaginary line on a map.

But I sense a hijack coming. If you want to debate the merits of whether there is such thing as a truly opt-in/opt-out government and the merits thereof, feel free to start another thread, and I would be happy to take it there.

[QUOTE=RickJay]
Practically speaking, you can’t simply shrug off your responsbilities to your fellow citizens every time a President or a Congress comes along that you don’t like. If that were okay, then by now nobody would be paying taxes.
[/quote]

By my line of reasoning which I have laid out above, people would shrug their shoulders and the government which no one liked would disappear.

But again, if you disagree with the foundations of my argument, take it to another, more specific thread, where I will be happy to chat your ear off.

6

That isn’t the choice you’re facing, though.

7

The choice I face is whether or not to support an entity that I do not want to. I included that little bit because I felt that I should to respond to your comment and clear any confusion that might have arisen from my above answers.

8

I have checked. Your taxes paid for the cocktail napkins at a party for a Congressman’s aide. :smiley:

But seriously, as RickJay pointed out- your taxes also go towards many many things of which you must approve. Thus, your conscience is clear. As is mine.

9

An opt-in government assumes a trust most people wouldn’t be comfortable with. For example, I could opt out and try to kill a whole lot of people*if I felt like it.

Here you either opt-in or you get free room and board at the nearest minimum security prison. Spending an equivalent amount of taxes on something you do support would probably be the simplest legal solution. And that’s only if you’re weird enough to think that’ll cancel it out. It’s that or go elsewhere. Sorry.
*I’m not going to. Seriously. It sounds displeasurable and laborious.

10

Big important words: I’ll be happy to talk about how an optional government would work, but it’d have to be in another thread. I would start one myself, but managing two GDs in my first week would be, uh, difficult, to say the least. What is important to the question is that I do not want to pay taxes, but do out of fear, and if I should continue to do so.

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
your taxes also go towards many many things of which you must approve.
[/quote]

As I have explained, as the government is not optional and funding is at least partially coercive, I can not support one single action by the government. I would support a lot of the same actions in an opt-in government, though so you’re right in a sense in that I do support a military, but the distinction lies in how it is supported.

11

I don’t think you are ethically responsible for the actions of your government by virtue of paying taxes (which, as you point out, are in large part coerced).

You are, however, ethically responsible for the actions of your government if you do not do everything within the law to change the policies you disagree with. Vote your conscience, express your opinion to your representative, march in the streets, try to change the opinions of your fellow citizens, write a book, or magazine article, or letter to the editor. I believe it is possible for citizens to effect change within the system.

12

Well, you can decide not to work. If you don’t earn any income, you don’t have to pay taxes on it.

Or, if you don’t want to feel guilty about it, assume your taxes go to pay for interstate highways and educational programs.

13

If you spread your taxes over all government expenses you are probably not supporting the war very much. I probably paid enough last year to repair about 50 feet of interstate highway or a couple of cents to all the programs taxes go to. If it helps just decide your portion goes directly to any program you do support. All the war supporters can think of theirs as going to that. I recently finished a project for the Army that didn’t help anything except to prove something did not work. It cost you less than a nickle, thanks.

14

[QUOTE=enigm4tic]
you could ask Thoreau how well it worked for him.
[/QUOTE]
This is the first thing the OP made me think of. Thoreau’s essay “On Civil Disobedience” is the Required Reading on this question, and on the off chance that the OP is unaware of it, (s)he and anyone else who’s really interested in the question ought to read it ASAP.

15

[QUOTE=ForumBot]
Big important words: I’ll be happy to talk about how an optional government would work, but it’d have to be in another thread.
[/QUOTE]

While that would be an interesting thread, it really has nothing to do with your choices in the real world we live in. On this planet, your choices amount to:

  1. Paying taxes in accordance with the law,
  2. Not paying taxes in accordance with the law, or
  3. Finding a different jurisdiction in which to live to pay different taxes.

The question you asked was whether you have an ethical duty to pay taxes that support policies you do not agree with. We’re trying to discuss that point, but you seem curiously unwilling to go along with discussion of your own question. To determine if you have such an ethical duty we MUST examine all the possible ramifications of your not paying taxes - which includes not only the bad things your tax money might be going towards, but also the free rider issue, the issue of the fact that your taxes go to many beneficial things, and the issue of the benefits that you personally receive from tax revenues and associated government spending, and whether or not you also refuse those benefits, or even CAN refuse those benefits. Those issues go towards whether or not it’s “Ethical” for you to pay taxes.

16

Not paying taxes on “moral” grounds is a useless gesture that puts you in the same company as non-payers who argue that the U.S. is an illegal fascistic entity.
Slightly better than useless is lobbying your Congresscritters to stop funding policies of which you disapprove.

What a dumb thing to say ( :wink: ). Nursing takes a great deal of smarts. Be proud of what you plan to do with your training.

[QUOTE=usbunch]
I probably paid enough last year to repair about 50 feet of interstate highway.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, so it’s you who’s responsible for that rutted stretch on I-70 west of Columbus? :frowning:

17

[QUOTE=ForumBot]
Big important words: I’ll be happy to talk about how an optional government would work, but it’d have to be in another thread. I would start one myself, but managing two GDs in my first week would be, uh, difficult, to say the least. What is important to the question is that I do not want to pay taxes, but do out of fear, and if I should continue to do so.
As I have explained, as the government is not optional and funding is at least partially coercive, I can not support one single action by the government. I would support a lot of the same actions in an opt-in government, though so you’re right in a sense in that I do support a military, but the distinction lies in how it is supported.
[/QUOTE]

Well, you could quit your job, go on strike, and move to a secluded valley somewhere in Colorado. :wink:

For all practical purposes, it’s impossible to live in any society and not pay some taxes that will end up supporting something you disagree with. Work to change the system as best you can, and don’t fret about being responsible for something you can’t control.

18

[QUOTE=usbunch]
If you spread your taxes over all government expenses you are probably not supporting the war very much. I probably paid enough last year to repair about 50 feet of interstate highway or a couple of cents to all the programs taxes go to.
[/QUOTE]

No single raindrop thinks it’s responsible for the flood.

On the other hand, the zeitgeist is moving on whether you want to come along or not. Your ability to change it is practically zero unless you’re a celebrity with far reaching influence or find yourself working the levers of power, whether that be a government position or a critical role in the media.

19

[QUOTE=ForumBot]
Woo, my first thread since actually paying to post here. Let’s hope I did everything right and am not digging any holes I’m not aware of. Go easy.

I don’t want this to devolve into a debate on whether the particular policies I mention are justifiable. What matters to the thread is that they are not justifiable to me, and what my actions that follow should be.

…

I live in the United States. My country has a number of policies with which I disagree, from the war in Iraq to all forms of welfare from social security to farm subsidies. To me, my money props up a coercive and sometimes harmful state. I vote in every election and write my congressmen, so I know I am playing an active role in attempting to reduce the harm, but dollars speak louder than words.

I currently pay my taxes in full, not out of any sort of duty to my country, but out of fear of imprisonment if I do not. Every death in Iraq and “enemy combatant” held in a secret prisons causes me to wince in the knowledge of my complicity. My only justification is that I am being forced to give my support under the barrel of a gun.

Question in a Nutshell: Am I, ethically, off the hook (so to speak) for my contribution to the harm since it was coerced from me? Do I have an ethical duty to refuse to pay taxes to support policies I do not agree with, or would it be simply not required but better?

My Answer in a Nutshell: It would be better, though not obligatory, to peacefully protest by not cooperating. However, I believe that by accepting the threat and cooperating, I have a duty to minimize more harm than I have contributed to while I walk free. It is this reason that has me training to be a nurse to go work with Nurses Without Borders (I’m not smart enough to be a doctor).
[/QUOTE]

I’m interested in how eagerly you have already pursued making sure you don’t receive any (presumably tainted) benefits from such a “coercive and harmful” state. That would be a good test of your ethics, it seems to me.

The overwhelming majority of US citizens receive benefits far in excess of what they pay in taxes, partly because we borrow so much money and partly because high-earners pay the bulk of income taxes.

20

One way to look at this is to recognize that no one has ever come up with a good answer to this question. If you feel particularly militant, you can go off the grid, or let yourself be jailed for nonpayment of taxes. But if you’re not going to do either of those things, you’re pretty much in “don’t worry, be happy” territory by definition.

You need to think of taxes as just one more nuisance in life, like gravity or Microsoft Word.