The Lynch movie’s sonci weirding modules were added because in the books the Emperor is afraid of Leto because his soldiers are being trained to Sarduakar levels. But that was too complicated to explain, so they decided that the Atreides had a new technological secret weapon.
But of course, after 10,000 years of technological stagnation, now you’re pulling a new secret weapon out of your ass? And how exactly are these sonic weapons better than an AK-47?
Those who have access to their ancestral memories have memories of Earth, so it does at least exist in the past of the Dune universe.
I cannot remember any reference to the current status of Earth in the novels.
Apparently in the Dune Encylopedia it says that Earth was devastated by an asteroid strike around 2800AD, but then it was “reseeded” and became inhabitable again, if not hugely significant:
Pure speculation follows:
There was a lot of “tech” and procedures shown in the movie that was defensive in nature. (To prevent assasinations, I presume.) Like the personal shields that stopped fast moving objects, but not slow ones, and sensors for detecting known explosives, poisons, and power sources.
Something [a weapon] as inert as a door handle that gets it’s power from “the voice” (or some similar technique) bypasses a lot of those defenses. So Atredeis has a weapon that shields won’t stop, nor sets of any detectors (making surprise attacks possible). That might scare folks.
Yeah, that’s why guns aren’t good weapons, you have personal shields, which is why everyone uses swords. Of course this is really only because aristocrats don’t seem aristocrat-y unless they’re swordfighting.
You noticed that as well? 
Thw main difference I recall in the Sci-Fi miniseries was that Irulan was given an expanded role to make up for losing her expository bits at the beginning of each chapter. The second miniseries deviated a bit more - the Duncan ghola is called “Duncan” from the beginning instead of “Hayt”, and Leto’s transformation doesn’t seem to set him up very well to become the God Emperor. I did find them prfetgty enjoyable, despite the low budget (matte backgrounds in 2000?)
I think they made the right choice expanding Irulan’s role. One of the major deviations between the books, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, and the 2nd miniseries was the age of Leto II and Ghanima. IIRC they were about 9 (physically, not mentally) in the book; in the mini I think they were about 16-18. Leto being entirely prepubecent when he became half-worm is a huge plot point (since it means he’s sterile).
It’s the entire reason why he “marries” his sister and let’s her take Farad’n as a concubine. He get’s to be the legal father of her children, and the Atreides and Corrino bloodlines are forever united.
I also thought Susan Sarandon was a poor choice to play Princess Wensicia opposite Julie Cox’s (Dowager) Empress Irulan. Nothing against Sarandon but it was too distracting imagining her to be the younger sister. She’s 28 years older than Cox for crying out load.
One of the main reasons the Kwisatz Haderach is so powerful is what he knows (i.e. pretty much everything). It could be that they wanted him to work out the endgame that gets them what they want.
I’m home now, looks like there’s 2 more questions that I had.
Other than the Fremen, who else knows that sandworms make spice?
My other question may not be answerable yet. My version of the book is dated 2005 with an afterward by Brian Herbert. In it, he mentions that the upcoming Dune 7 novel will complete the Dune series and be the final book. He also mentions that there’s a big secret that will be revealed. His exact words are:
“Frank Herbert was working on that project [Dune 7] when he died in 1986, and it would have been the third book in a trilogy that he began with Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune. In those novels he set up a great mystery, and now, almost two decades after his death, the solution is the most closely guarded secret in science fiction.”
Does anyone know what mystery he’s talking about? Did Dune 7 come out yet and what is the solution? I’m curious but if I have to slog through 5 and 6 more books to find out, I don’t think I’ll be able to do it. That was 6 years ago when he wrote that, something must have leaked since, right?
I’m not sure if I’m going to read another book or two. I’m pretty certain I’m not going to read 5 more novels to catch up to the series.
They were confident they could essentially control a god just because their breeding program was followed? Seems mighty arrogant of them. What could they have done with a planned Kwisatz Haderach that they couldn’t have done with Paul?
Dune 7 (or at least Brian Herbert and Kevin Hackerson’s version of the notes Herbert’s father left behind) was published as two books: Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune. Due to my absolutely unbending vow to never read another of the Herbert/Hackerson Dune books, I’ve never read them, but their Wiki synopses sound just as dire as all the rest of the prequels/sequels they’ve done.
I have not read those books (thankfully), but the specific mystery “revealed” hinges on events four or five books down the line from where you’re reading. So when I tell you it revealed the secret behind the nigh-omnipotent Face Dancers pretending to be gardeners… this will be entirely of no help in answering your question. You don’t have the context to understand it.
By the way, at least Dune Messiah and Children of Dune would be worthwhile reads for you. They’re fairly similar to Dune. And, really, you’ve only finished part of the story as of Dune. God-Emperor of Dune is a severe shift in tone and setting, and can be offputting because of that.
Yes, the Bene Gesserit were arrogant. Very arrogant. Didn’t that come through, even just with reading Dune?
I usually include God-Emperor, if only because Leto’s sacrifice in Children of Dune doesn’t make a lot of sense until you see the end point of his Golden Path.
People consistently underestimate the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen.
If I were to guess, it would be what the Honored Matres were running from.
Raised him right, from birth. Paul was not pleased with the Bene Gesserit, the planned Kwizatz Haderach would’ve been BG all the way.
Plus Paul explicitly says he is not the Kwizatz Haderach. My humble opinion is that the KW was supposed to be like a Reverend Mother who could remember male lives, not just female ones. A pretty good goal, but not some kind of game-changing superhuman.
Wheras Paul is something else – a spice-and-mentant-training-enabled prescient who can see part of the future and present. Which is pretty superhuman, and somewhat of a game changer (though really in the service of some sort of galactic human cosmic unconsciousness that’s getting horny and wants to get some cross-world lovin’ going on).
Liet Kynes figures it out in his last scene in Dune.
At least two secrets:
My suggestion for the casual, non-obsessive reader would be to read the first three books and then the wikipedia plot summaries for all 8 books. I obsessively read each book twice before moving on to the next book (except for 7 and 8). I’m glad I read them all, and appreciate the philosophical elements, but don’t take those elements too seriously.
I always found the specifics of warfare in Dune to be kind of implausible. At the beginning, the Fremen are a scattered band of nomads living on a relatively undeveloped planet, being chased around by the Harkonnen. I’m suppose to believe that after Paul Atreides takes over, they become an army that marches across the universe slaughtering billions? How many Fremen even lived on Arrakis to begin with? Even if they are adept at surviving in a desert enviroment, not all planets (planets!) are entirely composed of desert? :dubious:
That’s not exactly accurate. The Fremen were careful to hide their true strength and numbers from the Imperium and all occupiers. In actuality, they outnumbered non-Fremen on Arrakis by 2 to 1 : 10 million Fremen.
Slaughtering billions is easy if you absolutely control space, if most of the population is unarmed peons (typical planetary defence forces are just a couple of 30 000-man legions) and also if your Jihad is contagious.
10 million.
The Fremen’s deadliness isn’t just in the desert - it’s in their combat skills.
There’s a discussion on just this question towards the bottom of this article, and it’s backed up by the Dune Cyclopedia as far as troop numbers as well.
Loss of his son?
First is the political angle. It’s the same reason Jessica was Duke Leto’s concubine rather than wife. He was leaving room for a political marriage, but that never happened, in part because he loved Jessica so much.
Second, the BG long term breeding project involved dedicated and directed of all the key bloodlines for generations to lead up to their Kwisatz Haderach. The Fremen were wild cards from the boonies. If there was any sort of genetic plan still left after Paul, it wouldn’t come from an unknown source, but from the known tools.
Beats the alternate method of expulsion.
There’s also the fact she didn’t realize it really was the Water of Life. She thought that the Fremen had been seeded the Bene Gesserit religious story, and the old Reverend Mother was just glommed on to the story. She thought they were going through the motions without knowing what a real Reverend Mother was about. So when she actually was given the water of life, it surprised her, and she made the transformation, but doomed Alia. That was the moment she realized her error, and it was then too late to do anything about it.
There’s no indication that Duke Leto currently had plans, but he’s a power player of a major house, and his troops were a severe advantage. No telling what would have occurred to him as his popularity grew. He could have eventually maneuvered himself into the new Emperor and ousted Shaddam.
There was no Alia identity that was established. She was a literal baby with no sense of self, and no control of the ancestors. It was a practical certainty she’d be insane, or surrender to the control of an identity that was insane. Which she did.
Paul was not brought up with the full Bene Gesserit traditions, and had not been properly conditioned to the BG cause and mission. His mother was too independent minded, which she passed to Paul, and he had his own mission and own goals, and was not tied to the BG plan for humanity. And yes, he does say he’s not really the KH, that he’s something more/different.
The BG had engaged in millennia of human breeding and societal manipulation for their own purpose of establishing a better society. They felt the KH would give them the missing insights that they didn’t have, and allow them to shape humanity for their definition of the better. But Paul didn’t want to play their game, he didn’t give them a vote. He was too busy shepherding the path between failure and Jihad. His upsetting of the power balance and the status quo put the BG at a disadvantage. They couldn’t control human destiny, Paul was. Ergo, he was an obstacle, not a fulfillment.
I only saw the first SciFi miniseries, but it was much more accurate to the plot of the novel. Princess Irulan’s expanded role was to give us a connection to her for the climax at the end to make sense. The Lynch movie kinda had the look and feel of the universe, and kinda matched each scene from the novel, except it had the insertion of the weirding modules, it twisted the description of Baron Harkonnen to the disgusting demon of the film, it invented the stupid “heart plugs”. And the stillsuits should have had head coverings and face masks. The miniseries had a better adaptation of the story, but Duke Leto was greatly miscast (William Hurt acting the scene where Leto finds out about the attempted assassination against Paul, and he plays it sullen and low key - NO! Leto was a dynamic, explosive guy. The Lynch version got that right.) And the Sardaukar uniforms were pretty bizarre. But so were all the hats.
But the Lynch version needed Cliff’s Notes while watching it.
And actually came with them, if you saw it when it first opened in theaters!