The beatings will continue until literacy improves!
YOU, of all people, should NOT be bitching about capital letters. :rolleyes:
BTW, for those who think this book is so inappropriate-one wonders what these parents think of Judy Blume? (Although I would say that Deenie or Are You There God, it’s Me, Margaret is probably better literature, and far more entertaining)
what little i read from the book was graphic enough for me, and it checks out with what many has said. the book contains obscenities and sexual references. that alone should be enough.
i don’t. based on what i’ve read about the book so far, the publisher’s own opinion of the book and the divided (5 to 4) opinions of the panel of parents and school officials.
i did read them. public libraries are a given here, but that is irrelevant however, since my trouble is getting behind the mindset that one should proffer questionable reading material to your charges. let others stock rubbish if they will, but a school should filter out the worst ones.
is that the current state of affairs in the fight for literacy? the best the written english world has to offer to entice new/reluctant readers are books in IM speak filled with obscenities and sexual references?
i hope i have made my position clearer now. what i’m not sure of is yours. this is not a ban, the book is placed in a more age appropriate setting. do you disagree with the suggested age bracket for the book or do you disagree with the school’s right to move the book? are you upset that the superintendent has overruled the opinions of the librarian and the divided panel or are you upset that some effort will be required from those who now wish to put the questionable book back on the shelves of underaged readers? am you upset that this point by point refutation is getting way too long for something i can’t get worked up about or am you upset that i can’t understand the fuss made about a so called book that is not quite banned and is going to be read by everyone anyway because of all the publicity generated?
i was wondering who would take the shot 
It depends on the book of course. I skimmed parts of Forever to see what the hubbub was about and I don’t think I would be comfortable with letting a 10-11 year old right it. Older sure, but the idea of a younger kid reading about a teen girl telling her boyfriend to stick it in deeper so she can have an orgasm is just a bit too much.
Although I’d say both Forever and TTYL fall under the heading of what the parents don’t know can’t hurt them. If my hypothetical kid can get away with reading it without me knowing, good on them. Sneaking around with that stuff is a rite of passage.
Er - you only think he caved into the pressure because you don’t agree with his decision. Let’s put the shoe on the other foot. What if you were fighting to get a particular book retained, a group of parent’s said no - so you took it to a higher level and “won”.
By your current reasoning, the SCOTUS can be disbanded today because the lower courts NEVER make a mistake?
Ludovic: “Put the book where?”
Justin_Bailey: “Started writing this post.”
Ludovic: :rolleyes:
I’m in ur im, ruinin’ ur writin’ skillz.
Here, you seem to be implying that the OP is falsely making this out to be an issue of free speech rights (bolding mine):
But then, in the very next sentence, you commit the same fallacy you’ve just accused her of:
This debate is not, and has never been, about the school’s right to move the book. It is about the problems inherent in the process of allowing the town busybody to dictate which books go where, on a case-by-case basis, over the objections of two panels of experts and her parent peers. The fact that the book was moved isn’t the big deal here; the fact that the school kowtowed to the loudest party is the big deal.
Also, you have committed the fallacy of the false dilemma. It is quite possible to agree with both the suggested age bracket for the book and the school’s right to move the book, while still objecting to the particular process involved in moving this one book. You don’t get to determine which positions your debate opponents can choose from.
You mean “parents”, and that’s not what the OP is talking about. She’s talking about one parent being given supreme authority to overrule two panels of experts and other parents. If it went the other way–one parent were overruled by two panels, etc.–she would seem to celebrate that, or at least acknowledge its legitimacy.
You seem to ignore the fact the even the book’s publisher seems to think that the book is not appropriate for the youngest kids at that Middle school.
You are ignoring that the publisher does state that it is appropriate for the older kids at the middle school.
None of this has anything to do with the parent in question not taking responsibility for her own child. Instead she took it upon herself to be the responsible parent for all the other students at the school.
And who makes sure that only the older kids at the school reads it? No one, of course, which is why it’s best brought over the to HS.
Their parents, when they are not too busy parenting everyone else’s children.
Are you really advocating that no book in a school library should be on the shelf unless it is appropriate for the youngest student in the school?
Yes, I am ignoring that.
i wasn’t aware there’s a debate here, i thought we’re pitting the weak superintendent for succumbing to the pressure of a thousand (and some) parents to correct his librarian’s mistake.
i’m not interested in “free speech rights” and i’m not trying to “determine which positions (my) debate opponents can choose from”. i’m trying to figure out what the fuss is all about. you have a parent dismayed at a book in her child’s school library so she gathered a huge amount of signatures for her petition to remove the book from their libraries. after being rejected the first time, she managed to convince nearly half of the panel on her second attempt and then the school superintendent on her third. isn’t that how it’s supposed to work? how else is it supposed to work?
But the parents, unless they have special long range x-ray vision, cannot see what the kids are reading at school.
Yes. Unless they have two libraries.
No, we’re pitting the weak superintendent for succumbing to the pressure of one parent.
I missed the part with the petitions. Where was that mentioned? It’s not in the thread that I can see, and in the article it’s only mentioned in the comments, where hundreds of signatures, not thousands, are claimed. With such wide-ranging claims, I’m not going to believe it until I see an authoritative source on the petition.
I can’t see what my kids are reading at the public library either, no more adult books there. I can’t see what my kids are reading if they are at the bookstore without me, no more adult books there either. I can’t see what my kid is reading when she is at your house, make sure you don’t have any books I don’t approve of where she might see them.
It being at school really doesn’t make any difference. The book was still approved per the publisher for a segment of the school population.
As to all books being appropriate for the youngest kids at the school. Did you even think that one through?
There should be no book at an elementary school library that would be above a 4 year old level? Really?
Elementary school kids rage in age from 4 - 11.
Middle school ranges from 11-14. High school ranges from 14-19.
didn’t realise it’s not in the thread. from the same site linked in the OP - COMMENTARY
another link where the author herself, when confronted with the decision in Round Rock, states that the book was written for high schoolers and not middle schoolers - TTYL_author_defends_her_book
did you? we’re talking about a book using words that are not even appropriate for national tv, not reading level.
of course we are ultimately responsible for our children, but there is an understanding that placing your child and trust in a school means that the school will also do what is reasonable to deserve that trust. public libraries and bookstores aren’t responsible for your children, schools and certainly a friend who’s looking after your child are held to a different yardstick.
Yes, I did think it through. DrDeth was advancing the argument that no book in a school library should be above the level of the youngest student in the school. So, no book above a four year old level in elementary school, no book above an eleven year old level in middle school and no book above a 14 year old level in high school.
I find that approach to be unrealistic at best.
I still fail to see how having this book in the library means one can’t trust the school. While the book may not be appropriate for all the students, it is appropriate for some of the students.
I still believe the parent in question overstepped her bounds. Her time would be better spent parenting her own child. Let all the other parents take care of their own children.
Aye, rip out most of Ulysses, starting with Stephen’s stream of conciousness in Chapter 2.
Lewis carrol used to just make up words! ban Jabberwokky!