Just to clarify a point:
We had 2 types of campus cops.
Public safty type officers - These were basically security guards whos only real responsibility is to bust parties. They have no real police power.
Campus police - These are actual police officers with guns, handcuffs, and whatever else they need. These are the people who are called when a real crime is committed (or if theres a fight or something). They also handle parking and vehicle registration stuff.
One point on the Kentucky law as it applies to citizen’s arrest. According to Kentucky law, if you place someone under Cititzen’s Arrest, and they try to flee, you are legally within your rights to kill the person.
[And now it’s time for a hijack]
Conti…Kentucky? You live in the Bluegrass State? Cool beaners. I’m in Indiana, on the Ohio.
[/And now it’s time for a hijack]
Superdude, I think you are PARTIALLY right.
According to KRS 503.090, a citizen can use deadly force if a subject flees from arrest ONLY if the crime he originally commited was a felony involving the use or threatened use of serious physical injury or death AND only if the citizen believes that the person to be arrested is likely to endanger human life unless apprehended without delay. However, the citizen can still use regular force in reapprehending the felon, regardless of the felony committed.
And yep Superdude, i’m from Kentucky. I see you are a Hooiser…LOL…i’ve been to Indiana many times.
Conti
It doesn’t sound (to me) like the OP’s school is one of these, but as has been pointed out many schools have full-fledged cops on their campus security details.
The Rice University Police Department, for example, describes its authority thusly (from this page):
Subchapter E of the Texas Education Code contains sections 51.201-244, but I believe they mean §51.203.
On the other hand, the California Institute of Technology contracts with a private security firm - those guys are “rent-a-cops” with no police powers. However, one cannot completely ignore them if they have issues with what you’re doing on campus. From Caltech’s 2000 Annual Security Report:
[aside]Perhaps the most annoying aspect of this to some is that tickets given by Caltech Security have teeth: they’re Pasadena City Tickets, and if you want to protest it you have to go through the city. It also means that you can’t simply ignore it, whether you’re affiliated with Caltech or not. In practice, though, Caltech has easily the most lenient and laxly-enforced parking policy of any college or university I’ve ever seen.[/aside]
Security Guards are licensed in California by the Bureau of Security and Investigative Services, which is run by the Department of Consumer Affairs. Available online, and possibly of some interest, is the 68-page Power to Arrest Training Manual. In it, great pains are taken to (repeatedly and without equivocation) emphasize that Security Guards are not Peace Officers, and to point out the kinds of trouble SG’s can get in if/when they forget this.
The Security Guard’s “Authority to Question People” is discussed on page 21 of the Training Manual:
Based on this, I’d say that if you utterly blew off a security guard, you could conceivably be arrested for trespassing. This is for California, and YMMV in other states.
A while back there was a news item regarding a gentleman representing (I think) an ecological pressure group, or something like that, who tried to place a political leader under citizen’s arrest when he was staying in a local hotel in Eastern Europe. I think it may have concerned something like nuclear safety, but that may well be a red herring.
Given that I’ve included virtually no useful information in this post, can anyone tell me who the parties involved were, and what the outcome was? Could I place my local MP under citizen’s arrest if, say, a reasonable amount of personal research leads me to believe the smell from the local sewage works constitutes a threat to local health?
I’m going to ask my mate Keith about this stuff. He’ll sort it out for us. He knows everything.
Good luck with that. I know if I was minding my own business and some random person tried to restrain me and place me under “citizens arrest”, I would probably think that person was crazy. That means I would also punch him in the head and otherwise inflict pain on his person until I could get away.
Bottom line, you can’t just restrain people because they are doing something you don’t like. That’s assault (or perhaps some other legal term, but it is still illegal).
[ul]
[li]Under the law in many states, universitys and such can have thier own police force, or, if they don’t want the hassle, they can go with security[/li][li]I used to work security in night clubs. We got the “you cant do anything, your just security” types all the time. My boss had a policy that anybody who said that went to jail. If he was working, they often went to the county hospital(in handcuffs) first. He didnt put up with any crap. Yeah, we just had the same citizens arrest rights as a private citizen, but we were much better suited to deal with it, and we arrested people every week, so we had the experiance. When the cops came, they always took our side. Period. They did request that instead of hitting them in the head with mag lites, that we try and just break their collar bones instead. If they were bleeding, they had to take them to the hospital, if they werent, they just threw them in the drunk tank, broken collar bone and all. Texas law on citizen arrest is written in such away that they never had any legal recourse.[/li](I personally tried not seriously injure anyone, but other officers werent so kind)
[li]Under Texas Law, security officers have the same rights as the owners of the property, and as such have more authority in some areas than the police do[/li][li]We carried guns, maglites, pepper spray(our company was the first destributor for Capstun, the first peperspray, in our area. We were the only ones who had it until they lost the patent.)[/li][/ul]
In response to Ross’s question, no you couldn’t, at least not in this Texas.
In Texas, You can make a Citizins Arrest on any person for any felony or breach of the public peace comitted in your presence. If you didn’t see it happen, you can’t do anything. Breach of the public peace includes such gems as Public Intoxication(you dont have to prove it, just be able to say that in your oppinion the person was a danger to themselves or others), Use of abusive language in a public place, indecent expoosure, public urination, assault(includeing assault by contact. We charged one person with that that just put his hand on my partners arm,fighting, creating an offensive smell, criminal tresspass, and a whole list of others that I cant remember now. So pretty much, we had the authority to arrest pretty much anyone who had been in that bar for any length of time, just for being a jerk. And under Texas law, we could do anything short of deadly force to bring them under control.
I wouldnt take that job for anything in the world now, but at least I know enought now to be reasonably repsectful to anyone who is working security. A lot of the time it will just be some college kid trying to earn a little money, and wont do anything, but, for example, we had a vietnam vet that worked for us in the bars that used to be a cop, but was a little too paraniod for law enforcement, so he was forcibly retired. We were outside talking to the Sherrifs deputys, a brawl started in the bar, and he took down 4 of the 5 participants by himself. Tore one of thems ear off. Number 5 hit the fire exit and hauled ass. And this was a little short guy. You never know who is behind that “Tin Badge”
I think it was Peter Tatchell (British protester) who tried to arrest Robert Mugabe (President of Zimbabwe) somewhere (Sweden?).
Tatchell campaigns mainly for gay rights.
Mugabe is considered pretty corrupt, and is waging a campaign of harrasment against white farmers. He also made some unpleasant remarks about homosexuals.
Security guards intercepted Tatchell (and pushed him around).
Any private university can make whatever rules it wants. The limitation being that they must observe state and federal laws, but can extend them. If a university says that anybody with green eyes can give traffic tickets, then they have the authority, on that campus, to give the ticket. 90% of the time, if you’re not registered with the campus, the ticket goes away. Most of the state colleges, if they have non-police security, have an agreement with local law enforcement that allows them to pass tickets of non-members out of the university, and into the police’s hands. It’s as valid as any other ticket.
You have citizens, police officers, peace officers and security officers. There’s differences between them all. I’m too lazy to look up the specific defination at the moment, but here’s the general idea. Police officers are police officers, city police, sheriffs, troopers, etc. Peace officers are like corrections officers, guards at state facilities, and I beleive MP’s are considerd peace officers when they’re off base. Security officers are basically guards. Citizen’s are your everyday Joe (or Jane) on the stree. That list was basically decending order of law enforcement powers. Most private campus safety officers are either considered peace officers, or security officers under the eyes of the law.
Citizen’s arrest: In NYS, you can place somebody under citiziens arrest, and may use ‘reasonable force’ to detain them if you a) have direct knowledge that they commited a felony or b) witness the commission of any offense. Reasonable force is basically up to the judge, so if you see somebody trying to break into a vending machine, and you place them under citizen’s arrest, you would get in trouble if you killed them. Also, you must turn the individual over to the police as soon as possible, and may be required to file a citizen’s arrest report. You also can be held liable for wrongful arrest if you screw it up.
General disclaimer: As with any legal question, you should consult with an attorney in your particular locale before trying to tempt the validity or extent of ANY law.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdgr *
[li]I used to work security in night clubs. We got the “you cant do anything, your just security” types all the time. My boss had a policy that anybody who said that went to jail. If he was working, they often went to the county hospital(in handcuffs) first. He didnt put up with any crap. Yeah, we just had the same citizens arrest rights as a private citizen, but we were much better suited to deal with it, and we arrested people every week, so we had the experiance. [/li][/QUOTE]
What, did you watch Roadhouse too many times? At most of the bars we go, bouncers and club owners are usually aware that theres a good chance they will be sued if they get out of hand. Most of the people at the bars around here are business people or wealthy college kids so they definitely have the means to sue the nightclub.
I was in this bar a couple of weeks ago. Around closing time, some drunk girl was screaming at and trying to push past the bouncers to get back in the bar. All they could do was hold her back from getting in the bar while crying “all of you here are witnesses here”. If she had somehow injured herself in her fight to get inside, it would have been very easy for her to sue the bar (except for about 20 witnesses).
Yeah, in this case it was some psycho wannabe cop who was probably having flashbacks from the 'Nam.
Like you said, a lot of security guards are just unusually large college kids putting themselves through school. But there are also a lot of security guards who get off on bullying and beating people.
**
Roadhouse hadnt come out yet at the time…We had a couple of people try to sue, but they got laughed out of court. I was told when I started work, “Do what you have to, we have good insurance, and we don’t get hurt here.” Under Texas law, we had the right to use what ever force we deemed neccesary to get the person under control, and they had no legal recourse. I don’t recall us ever having to use that insurance.
My boss put over 200 people in jail, and around 30 or so in the hospital in the 5 years or so he worked that club. He had it calmned down a little by the time I started working there. But it was still a rough place. This was on Texas’s infamous Jacksboro Highway, John Mayall did a song about it a few years back, the chorus was something like “The cops aint comning out to Jacksboro Highway”. There have been books written about it. It’s kind of no mans land outside the city limits of Fort Worth. We would subdue the person causing the problem, handcuff them, and wait for the Sheriffs Deputys to come pick them up. Sometimes it was Hours.
Oh, and many of the people who came out there were quite wealthy. The club was succesful, in part, because when there was trouble, it was dealt with quickly. We had an interesting mix of people, since all the big country bands played there(part of the reason I hate country music so), and the rich went to jail as well as the poor(even those in $60 shirts).
**
If this had happened where I worked, she would have been handcuffed and turned over to the deuptys.
** No, it was a former cop, who took care of a brawl effectivly without backup. All the Deputys who hauled off the prisoners were impressed, and thought he did a great job.
** Thats true, there are. And there are some who just do the job they are paid to do, which in the case of night club security is to keep the peace. The law enforcement we dealt with respected us and treated as if we were fellow officers. I even got out of tickets more than once when they found out who I worked for and where I worked.
**
[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a cross between the rowdy bar in ‘Roadhouse’ and the country bar in ‘Blues Brothers’ with the chicken-wire in front of the stage.
If the police are unable to respond in a timely manner, I suppose there’s nothing wrong with keeping the peace.
Biting a guys ear off is still a little nuts though.
Is that a mixed metaphor or what?
You know, I never really asked him why hit tore the ear off(he ripped it off, didn’t bite it), I always assumed that either was the first thing he could get a hold of to get him under control, or he felt it was neccesary to get the guys attention. I guess I will ask him if I ever see him again.