Hmm, those kids were lucky they got someone as responsible as the OP.
If they were to make the same mistake in other places they would be sucking soup with a straw, if they were lucky.
Maybe they learned something that will keep them alive in the future.
Another option would have been to ask the restaurant authorities to get the kids to behave. I’ve been in a situation where one person was being obnoxious and a manager told him to either clean up his act or leave. No confrontation between the offender and the offended.
I once told a white trashy fellow to quit swearing at his girlfriend who was on the floor crying. It was in a public family restaurant. I received a swift uppercut to my jaw for my efforts. I’m just glad he didn’t have a knife. I learned the hard way that it would have been better for me to simply alert security / call the police and then monitor the situation, and only interfere if there was threat of physical violence.
Honest question. Is it legal to intentionally throw a liquid on someone? Does it matter the liquid like Coke and Pepsi are OK but bodily fluids are not.
I think that originally the OP overreacted with the “You’re done.” statement but some of the posters fail to realize that it was the punk that escalated everything.
So the OP said something and that makes it OK for the punk to spill a drink on him?
The OP lets it be known that that is not acceptable and the punk initiates the physical contact?
I’m glad we have so many that defend the rights of people to throw drinks on you then start to physically assault you if you dare to let them know that you didn’t like it. I guess in every situation you should meekly run away so not upset the asshole that’s doing their best to ruin you night. Who knows, you may accidentally upset them and then you’re the bad person picking on the poor sweet angel.
While we’re talking about “ruined lives” :rolleyes: and advocating letting bad behavior slide, what about all the kids in the restaurant who saw that kid acting like an asshole, making threats, and getting away with it?
(I agree that the best reaction would have been to ask the manager to remove the obnoxious kid.)
Aside: I saw my first “stretched ear” a couple weeks ago, on a white guy in his (I guess) late 20’s, early 30’s. He rented our community hall for a family reunion. I did my usual inspection when the event was over, and found the guy and two of his kids mopping the floor. Not just mopping, but on their hands and knees with scrub pads, working on a years-old stain. “You didn’t have to do that.” “I like to leave a place better than how I found it.” Whoa.
Congratulations on being a big man, ducati.
In places I’m familiar with, it’s not legal, regardless of the nature of the liquid.
A kid who does that is lucky to be alive. I can easily imagine the victim becoming enraged beyond reason.
I have a lot of problems with the OP’s actions here. First in selecting Steak 'n Shake to eat at. Then selecting the out of the way booth which was probably near the kitchen or bathroom doors. And kids were crying already, who eats at a place like that? He also failed to accidently spill a drink on his assailant as part of his resolution of the problem.
When people open the door to violence, they do not get to complain to me about how much walks in. IMO YMMV
The kids acted the way they did because we have taught them that it is OK to do those things as there will be no consequences.
I have a legal question: what happens next, regarding the judicial process?
Will the OP remain involved with this for the next 2 years?
I’m guessing that it will go like this:
Presumably the kid was held for a few hours at the police lockup and then released.
The court date will probably be months or years in the future. The kid and his bored lawyer will then spend 20 minutes in court before a judge who knows nothing about the case. The judge will probably ask simply whether anybody got hurt , whether any weapons were used, and then dismiss the case with an order to put the kid on probation or something. The OP will never have anything to do with the proceedings.
But what happens if the defense lawyer decides to do a good, thorough job? He could request a jury trial. He could (and should, I think) demand to cross-examine the witnesses. If the police wrote down names of other people in the restaurant (who took photos, etc) he could subpeona them, and he could certainly demand that the OP appear in court to testify. This could be a huge hassle for the OP; forcing him to get his own attorney to prepare him for court, to advise him not to say something self-incriminating, etc. Not likely to happen, but it could be a major hassle and cause you to lose sleep for the next year or more.
So what’s likely to be the end game of this episode? It’s an exciting and interesting story for us to follow here on the Sdope…But in the grand scheme of things , it’s pretty boring; the policemen who responded must see things like this every day.
(I don’t want to hijack the thread…if these issues run too long, maybe we need a separate thread)
Pretty much. Pretending to accidentally spill your drink on someone shouldn’t be seen as a viable course of action outside of high school, and even there it could lead to an ass-kicking.
Uh, because it’s an awesome story of a well-deserved ass kicking? Of the tree of justice bearing fruit? Of a just desert wrapped in comeuppance and delivered with a side of knee-to-the-ribs?
Welcome to the Dope, where public opinion is overwhelmingly pussified. It’s funny to watch, really, as the “But what if he had, like, nine guns and shot up the whole restaurant?!” crowd tries to reconcile with the “You ruined his life forever and ever!” gang. It always ends up with them saying “Look, we can’t really decide why you’re wrong, but you’re wrong.”
Juveniles don’t get jury trials in most jurisdictions. Judge trial only. Testifying for the prosecution is rarely a “huge hassle” and even more rarely requires you to get your own lawyer. No reason whatsoever to lose any sleep about testifying against some punk in juvy court.
I agree with your general impression. The kid, assuming no prior record, will be given a chance to go forth and sin no more without serious consequences. Hopefully, a lesson learned.
ETA: the victim is the last person a defense attorney wants at trial. The OP might be subpoenaed, but by the State, not the defense.
The girls were white. The 2 piercing brothers were white. The one mumbling “cracker” and stuff was black. He was the one who tried to knock me down. White Boy 1 offered to cut my throat.
I’m 50. Anyone under 30 is a kid to me.
The girls were probably teenagers. They left. The boys were between 18 and 22.
Our society has rules and acceptable behavior. We all know what they are. We all have a contract with society - and the law - to abide by them. Most of us do.
Sometimes, people choose not to abide by these rules. Sometimes alcohol makes that decision for them. Sometimes it’s peer pressure, and sometimes just a gamble that you won’t get caught. Sometimes, it’s just a selfish asshole doing what they want.
These weren’t tow-headed 12yo scamps rolling TP in the trees, or putting flaming bags of dog shit on the porch. These were adults who decided that pouring a drink on someone they didn’t like was acceptable. One decided that it was acceptable to attack someone about to call the cops on them. One decided that threatening to kill someone was acceptable.
They found out that I, and everyone in the place agreed that this was not acceptable.
They are just bullies, I stood up to them, and everyone had my back.
They were all charged with felonies, and it most certainly will affect their lives for some time to come. This is what happens when you are an unrepentant, anti-social asshole who assaults and/or threatens others. I’ll sleep like a fucking baby.
My initial admonishment was a reasonable one, delivered in a quiet, and neutral manner, so as not to embarrass them. It’s painfully obvious that I’ve dealt with this kind of person many more times than you, and I can promise you that had I “tattled” to the manager, or begged him politely, the outcome would have been the same. Bullies don’t like “getting in trouble” and they always lash out.
I’m not a badass, and I don’t have to prove myself to anyone anywhere.
I do have a standing rule to hurt anyone who decides to put their hands on me or my family. It’s a reasonable rule, and frankly I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t do the same. Of course, all my friends are cops or firemen, so there could be some bias there.
If you want to ignore someone who assaults you, you’re free to do so. If some rude, obnoxious asshole is bothering people and you want to gently cup their balls and whisper in their ear how awesome they are, be my guest. It’s just not how I’m wired.
Now get off my lawn.
Yeah, I don’t think he would have spilled that drink if he knew he was getting a felony…he would have thought twice! A felony will mess you UP, man. Sooo many doors will slam closed.
ETA: That kid calling you a cracker when all his friends are white is weird. It would be like the one white friend calling a black man a coon while all his black friends just sat there. You would think at least one of them would have been like, “Dude, what the hell?..”
The assault had already occurred - the kid threw his drink. The wristlock was a response to the assault and the shove, and was quite in keeping with the level of force continuum.
I’m okay with how ducati handled it from start to finish.
The “kids” sounded like they were old enough to know better. I’m betting they were doing it for attention and a reaction. I’m also betting they didn’t count on it going the way it did.
I don’t know that I consider a thrown/spilled drink “assault” as much as a direct and personal insult. But that’s for the court/law to decide.
The mental image of 9 people standing around recording the altercation with their phones is both funny and a little sad. Not one guy in the place stepped forward to help? Not one??.. That’s the disappointing part.
Good job, Ducati.
I find it interesting that so many people who think we should “live by the social contract” and “be expected to give of ourselves to help our fellows” have a problem with someone standing up for the basic rules of civilized behavior in a public setting, to the point of hinting (if not outright stating) that you were the one in the wrong.
According to them, you shoulda just kept your head down, ignore them and they’ll go away, it’s just the way the world is today, you just don’t understand the younger generation…
Bullshit - you, sir, defended civilization, and I applaud you for it. Punks like that would have been painted blue and clashing with Roman legions 2000 years ago.
Ummmm…it has always been an assault. This ain’t new.
Hey girl,
White people wouldn’t really say something to a black person calling other white people Cracker. We mostly think it’s funny. Even when it’s directed at me it makes me giggle. Which can be dangerous if the person calling me cracker is really pissed.