I hate being an atheist

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
101

I was talking to my religious Mom today about an unfortunate rift in the family the past few years (the details of which I will not go into, it would take paragraphs). There was a small improvement in the situation, and my mother got all weepy about how great God is, because she was praying for an improvement in this situation, and this was His answer.

I wanted to tell her, this is what the douchebag God you believe in does to deserve tears of joy? The same God who could solve this rift utterly and completely? If he was simply as powerful as a talented human being, he might be able to solve it, but this bastard is supposed to be omnipotent. Tears of happiness, because the omnipotent and omniscient God she believes in and prays to was so moved to allow the situation to improve enough that a freaking Hallmark card was sent in the mail.

Not sure exactly what my point is posting this, to be honest. Just reminded me of how entirely bankrupt the whole god notion is, I guess.

102

God gets some very good breaks in terms of attribution. Some people give him credit for everything that’s good, and the blame for the bad stuff goes to everybody else. When humans apply that kind of pattern to themselves, it’s narcissism or severe denial.

103

All of the religious people that are described are so thick-headed and stupid. Knuckle-dragging dunderheads incapable of rational, logical thinking. But I don’t think I see those qualities in most of the religious people that post at the SDMB. I can identify very easily with the thinking of the person who said that he is a Hindu, yet I am a Christian.

Many of you ascribe all sorts of values and characteristics to Christians that only a minority sub group of Christians have. How logical is that?

In looking over the lists of advantages that Sampiro and Boyo Jim feel that atheism grants to them, I didn’t notice any that I don’t also have.

Sampiro, yours are beautifully honest You can be so damned painful to read. And you do help me to think some things through. But the particular things you listed are not problems for me. (I have whole nuther sets of things to forgive myself for.)

I don’t believe in a petty God who keeps track of every infraction. And I don’t believe in a God who sends anyone to hell. I grew up with a very loving father who was kind and compassionate. That’s the way that I expect God to be. I’ve never understood the God of the Old Testament – just respected at a distance. But with the New Testament, it’s different. The same God, but a better understanding.

I’ve also had something that I can only describe as “mystical” happen to me a long time ago. It involved an intensity of feelings and change in perception with my senses. I’m aware that other people have these experiences – both the religious and the non-religious. They can be life-changing in that they show you other ways to think about possibilities.

It’s a little like having an extra sense that you don’t know how to describe to anyone else, but you only have it for a very short time anyway.

This sounds like absolute nonsense, but how would you expect it to sound if everything that I say is exactly the way I describe it?

jsgoddess, I know that I don’t know how you feel exactly. But I grieved deeply once and I felt like I kept running into a wall. I even when to a store that sold greeting cards so that I could browse through the sympathy cards for comfort. But I only cried when I was in the shower and the water relaxed me or I was in the car alone and driving to school. It was a terrible time.

One thing that did help was finding little reminders of him everywhere. There might be a sterling heart in a store window that said Forget Me Not. And I would think of the forget-me-not flowers I found on the day he died. Or I would find a penny on one of my walks and I would think of how he left coins in the street for a certain poor man to find. And all of these things comforted me.

I hope that easier days will be ahead for you soon.

104

I have no idea what thread you’ve been reading, but it clearly isn’t this one.

And I don’t believe in a God at all. So what?

105

I know he’s described himself as a“philosophical theist," but never heard him use that term. Perhaps he used both.

106

I’ve 50 now. I suppose if I died as a child, one could have possibly considered me a theist then. I had some idea of how it felt. I started having more and more doubts around the time I was in high-school. I went through some wonder years (agnostic) in my teens and twenties, but atheist best describes my last 20 years in this regard. I couldn’t go back now, nor would I want to in the least. I’m not any less happy for it.

Perhaps, it’s not so much atheism, but growing into adulthood, and leaving the wishful thinking and thoughts that you once explored as a child that you can never seriously entertain anymore as a critical thinking adult that has got you down a bit. I believe you said you were only 26?

Look at it this way. Wishful thinking doesn’t change the outcome one iota. As an adult, regardless of what you believe, it’s not going to make a bit of difference in the end, is it, so why dwell on it? Find comfort you don’t adhere to any of that conservative mumbo-jumbo hell-fire bullshit. Many conservatives suffer from depression, despite the façade they put on for Sunday gatherings. See the “The Mind of the Bible Believer” from Prometheus books, e.g…

As James Randi once said, it only takes a little courage to accept this world for the way it is, and then get on with your life. I have found the journey worthwhile thus far. I’ve hit a few bumps along the road, we all do if we live long enough, but I still find life has been enjoyable for the most part.

107

You have a point, so perhaps we are all better off using the term “fervently” religious, instead.

I agree that the majority of church-goers, and those who identify themselves as “religious” aren’t the fanatics we describe, but those are not the people we have a problem with.

I’m perfectly content with living amongst religious types, and acknowledge their celebration and dedication to their religion, but when certain people begin to push their religion on me, that’s when it crosses the line. There’s expressing one’s opinion, and evangelization.

It’s exactly the same with religious people who take offence to atheist types who try and convince religious people to “see the truth” instead of “seeing the light”, and it’s exactly this kind of behaviour which is why atheism is often jokingly called a “religion”.

108

Completely agreed.

Unfortunately, I am no longer an atheist. :frowning:

I don’t think any thoughtful person can accept a religion whose core thesis is: God wants to save you from the terrible situation that God put you in, but if you don’t know or accept that, God will put you in an even more terrible situation. It doesn’t make any sense, and the handwaving answer that we aren’t capable of comprehending it is thoroughly unconvincing in light of that the Universe is filled to the brim with concepts we CAN comprehend. Presumably a God who has created the Universe would have constructed those mechanics and thus is very interested in things being comprehensible to mankind, in which case why would he leave out the most important things?

109

I think this belongs in MPSIMS. I’ll move it there for you.

Gfactor
Pit Moderator

110

And how much more significant does humanity become when God is thrown into the mix? We’re still problem-laden organic structures on a dirty rock whirling round a mediocre star in the ass-end of cosmic nowhere - it’s just that up until the last few centuries, we didn’t know it.

111

Or when a baby or young person dies, it’s God’s will.

That’s pretty farking cold, if you ask me.

112

A Pale Blue Dot In 1990 as Voyager was about to leave our tiny solar system, they turned the camera back and took a picture of earth. Between the ticks on the photo is a pale blue dot. That is earth. Any farther and it disappears from sight. Turn it back and there are billions and billions of stars ,planets and other celestial bodies. The universe is an enormous and complicated place. To think that if god exists and he created it staggers the imagination. But, to think that he needs people on this speck to pray and worship him is laughable. That is such an exaggerated sense of importance. Get off your knees and get involved in making this rock a pleasant place. We are alone and are making our home a dirty and dangerous place.

113

For me, the worst part of being an atheist is that there’s no Hell.

Seriously, it’s the thought that Anne Frank and Joseph Mengele went to the same place.

Yeah, it’s not that the “good”—even by my own, I’m sure philisophically meager standards—aren’t rewarded or escape oblivion, it’s that some people aren’t being eternally tortured and tormented beyond human imagination.

All in all, it’s probably for the best that I am an atheist. The world probably has enough people like me who can’t be argued with, or who’s beliefs you’re expected to dance around. :smiley:

114

It’s not a bleak world view. The world is a pretty nice place overall. Yeah, bad stuff happens - randomly. It makes us appreciate the good stuff that happens by default: sunrises, cat purrs, smiles from our sweeties, etc. Yes, you won’t get to meet Arthur C. Clarke. Damn. I wanted to as well.

But there it is. You do it because it’s what we do. And we make each day better than the day before.

115

I must say that while I am agnostic leaning towards there being Something, not an atheist, I find the idea of “shit happens” much easier to live with than the idea of God running everything – or being involved in every detail of our lives, anyway. My dad died when I was seventeen, and while that was very hard and bad and awful and I still miss him and it’s been sixteen years, the idea that it was an unfortunate happening is better than the thought that Somebody out there decided my brother and I didn’t need him around any more.

116

Nobody goes anywhere, or maybe more accurately there isn’t anywhere to go to.

117

Right, but that sucks sometimes.

118

Well, quite a lot more significant if you figure that now you’re talking about the intelligence that set the Universe in motion being personally interested in us. We may struggle to understand why that would be so, but by definition we’d hardly be in a position to offer informed criticism.

Now you find the whole concept offends your sense of reason, and I’m sure as shooting not going to try to talk you out of it. It’s just that, firstly, it amuses me to think that “Well, at least I don’t have to believe any of that God crap!” is a positive affirmation of the joys of atheism - you might as well say “Well, at least I’m not having to prop up the shoe industry!” is a positive affirmation of the joys of having both feet amputated - and secondly, it amuses me even more to see scientific, rational, objective devotees of provable knowledge act as though there was still some ultimate meaning to their existence.

What, when you’re dancing inescapably on unbreakable strings of cause and effect going back to the Big Bang? You rant and rave about what people say and do, prate about making tomorrow better than today, air treehugging platitudes about taking care of the planet - can you demonstrate as an objective fact that you or anyone else is doing anything other than what the mindless little organic self-reproducing molecule compels you to do? And is there any more reason to be proud of the fact than a chunk of rock would be proud of its orbit around the Sun?

You’re pleased with yourself because you had the balls to cut down the tree, I’m thinking, but you still want to play on the swing. :smiley:

119

As his victims, we are most certainly in a position to criticise.

That argument presupposes that belief in God is a good thing; I look at it more as having a tumor removed. And the relief is the relief of not having the local witch doctor beat you with a stick to drive the evil spirits out.

There’s a meaning if we decide there is a meaning. And I’d rather have meaning and purpose that I give myself than be the tool or toy of a god.

We aren’t; quantum mechanics adds a good helping of uncaused effects and randomness into the mix. And at any rate, I fail to see why that’s worse than being a god’s puppet.

We have the right to be proud when we accomplish something hard, yes.

As for your rhetoric about “mindless molecules”, you are engaging in what I’ve heard called “greedy reductionism”; breaking things down to their simplest parts, and pretending that they are all that matter. We aren’t just composed of mindless molecules; we are composed of mindless molecules, arranged in complex interacting structures, which in turn are arranged in yet higher level structures. And on and on up the ladder of complexity until you finally end up with us.

There’s also the problem that most of that’s true whether or not God exists or not. We are made of molecules whether or not there is a God; we are following “unbreakable strings of cause and effect” ( or not ) whether or not there is a God, and our purpose is what we say it is whether or not there is a God. It reminds me of the people who hate evolution because they don’t want to be “related to an ape”, while ignoring the fact that they ARE modified apes, and would be even if we were all created 5,000 years ago with divinely faked evidence for evolution.

120

Why sure they went somewhere—the ground. And parts of the atmosphere. Possibly the ocean, too, depending on the water tables and such.

Unless you, y’know, want to be pedantic about figures of speech or something. :smiley: :wink: