Reading comprehension much? He’s bitching because the epic, well written and very fun and playable offline computer RPGs of a few years ago (like Planescape Torment, Baldur’s Gate 1&2 and Fallout 1&2) are going the way of the adventure game in favour of glorified chatrooms with quests consisting of “kill x number of y.”
And I agree with him. Even the people I know that are really addicted to games like WoW seem to approach it more like a job than an actual game: I’ve got one guy consistantly bitching because the expansion to WoW is going to introduce higher level equipment that will invalidate all the “work” he’s put in to collecting his current stash.
lol, there are a bunch of folks in my ex-guild saying exactly the same thing. You have to go into the high level instances a LOT of times in order to get the desired set (or you have to wait in queue’s and play your ass off in PvP to get the high level PvP sets)…and they will all be out the air lock when they bump the cap up to 70 next year. Myself, I liked WoW…but not enough to do the same instance over and over and over again (mind you, the high level instances can take hours or even days to crawl through completely to get the uber lootz) just go finish off a set of armor or get the ring/trinket/weapon, etc that you need. And if you blow it off and don’t do that, perhaps simply using unmatched blue armor and weapons gathered through quests or randomly in instances (or bought at the auction houses)…well, you will be behind the curve if you want to do PvP. Noticably behind the curve.
To me its just not worth the time investment…not for what we get today. Maybe in the future someone will come up with a new way to do online role playing/adventure type games that will combine the best of both worlds (interactive, multiplayer, persistant world, but with a dynamic world that changes and is modified by the players, non-canned quests that are unique to the player and develop along a true story line from each individual players perspective). But for now MMORPG’s are more work than fun IMHO.
Assuming you’re not talking about Shadows of Undrentide or Hordes of the Underdark, that would be the new premium mods. You can download them for less than buying the CD, but I’d say $20 is a fair price if you want the physical media. The best of those is probably Witch’s Wake, but it was conceived as a multiple-mod story and the guy only ever got to make one. Kingmaker is interesting but can end suprisingly abruptly, and Shadowguard is probably the weakest of the three. The best mod Bioware has come up with is Pirates of the Sword Coast (which actually has little to do with pirates) but is currently only available online.
And smiling bandit, once you get your CD key back out of the ini file, go to nwn.bioware.com, open an account, and enter your CD key(s) into your account info. That’ll allow you to post in more forums. Also, as long as you can remember your username and password you’ll be able to get your key even if you have to blow away the entire hard drive.
There are a whole bunch of GREAT mods for NWN. Even the ones of slightly-above-average quality are way better than the main quest (which I really didn’t like). I haven’t played any since before they started charging, so the community might be different now, but there were several good websites that reviewed mods.
Just to mention that I fully agree that these games, in this order have been the best computer RPG I’ve played by a long shot.
Except for the part about wishing a Planescape Torment 2. I absolutely refuse a follow-up to this game. It’s self sufficient, and a PT2 would only make the story tamer. The ending was the culmination of a carefully crafted tale (I can’t remember how many times in a row I watched it after finishing the game) and there’s really nothing to add. The story is over.
What I want is another equally original and compelling story, able to make me feel as much for the characters. Something you usually only find in books and movies. But there’s no way it’s going to happen. The story was too complicated, not everything was explained down to the smallest detail, so you actually had to think by yourself or have some imagination : “what the fuck is he doing in the end scene?”… Did you pay any attention at all to the story? Of course not, because there was “too much stuff to read”. We’re here to click on the mouse and bash orcs on the head, not to read stuff and try to understand it, dammit!! Oh! And it was depressing. You bet it was a sad tale. It was called Planescape : Torment, not Planescape : Hollywood.
OTOH, if every CRPG had as good and compelling a story to offer I would do nothing else than playing CRPG. So, maybe it’s for the best.
Next topic for Gread Debates : “What can change the nature of a man?”
On the one hand I agree with you. On the other hand, the setting is so original and the side characters were so well fleshed out that a “sequel” starring on of them would go down well if the story was strong enough. Specifically Annah :).
With another character, well, maybe. But I would be affraid they would reuse the same tricks, make a pale imitation of the first game, since as proved by movies, follow-up rarely stand up to the original.
Besides, I’m not sure I agree with the choice of Annah, because though she’s an engaging character, I didn’t think it was the most interesting one. She’s …err…close to ordinary by comparison with many others. You just want to wish her well and forget about this damned awful stuff she should never have been involved in at the first place for her own sake (OK, her life wasn’t great to begin with, but still).
I would be more interested in, for instance, the founder of the “philosophical brothel”, who had a very mysterious story of her own and in some ways share some similarities with the main character. Remember her intriguing diary? Her exchanges with some fiendish emmissary in a shop alluding to her not really being what she pretends to be (and even what she’s saying she is is quite interesting at the first place)? For instance, like the main character, it’s uncertain whether redemption is possible for her, despite all her suffering.
Oh, there are still lots of good free mods. I’ve played several, including one that was supposed to be a Bioware release until WotC stopped it. I just meant that there are four “premium” mods, authored and released by Bioware and that three of them are probably what *xtisme saw. They’re a little harder to find now, as you have to get to the IGN NWN vault slightly differently, but there are many many good mods, though fewer than I would like for epic characters.
Allow me to explain: it doesn’t have to be a sequal. I just want something like it. Something strange, unique, and amazing again.
Secondly, I can’t get my Neverwinter Nights CD-Key out of my ini file because I never had it on this computer. That PC was sold years ago.
I’ve thought about making my own game, but it’ s a heck of a lot of work for someone who hasn’t programmed in a long, long while. And doesn’t much in the way of sprite-making skills. I was playing around with RPGmaker XP, but I don’t have the money to buy it right now.
Random recommendation from the Adventure/RPG genre:
I’ve been playing the PC version of Fable: Lost Chapters (essentially, an expansion of the original), and while it’s rather action-heavy, it’s GOOD action heavy in a Zelda way, your character’s development is engaging, and as far as I can tell it’s got that Torment-esqe thing where your alignment is both dynamic and actually matters.
I’m ten hours in, just finished what I THOUGHT was the main quest, but it turns out there’s more to the game than I’d expected. Well, time for me and my trusty Harbinger, the Legendary Broadsword to head to the Northlands.
I expect to get at least two more playthroughs out of it (this is a primarily physical character I’m playing now, the other broad skill groups are skill (thievery/archery) and Will (spellcasting)) before I’m done, and for bonus points I’m going to try one as evil and one as neutral (since I’m doing “sickeningly good” now)
I don’t want to sound like I’m dumping on you personally but Fable is so far out of the leage of the games we’re talking about here it’s not funny. The character interaction is limited to gestures where good RPGs have indepth conversation paths (Torment always had around 6 options to choose from), the world is tiny in comparison, you never really have any alternative to combat, ever, the quests are pretty much all go here, kill that, and the story is as cliched as they come.
Plus, you’ve only got about 2 hours of play left, making for a grand total of 12 - 14 (if you really pad it out) hours of play. Torment had 40-60 hours in it. Baldur’s Gate 2 had 160 hours if you did all the side quests.
Also, your alignment doesn’t actually matter. Unlike in Torment you can switch alignment with a change of clothes/donation to the appropriate temple, and there’s only about 3 different story parts where it makes a difference as well.
Well here’s one advantage (?) of having a really old computer. I call it built in delayed gratification (not jealousy or sour grapes or anything else. ) I’ll finally be upgrading to a newer system in the next couple of weeks and will finally be able to run Neverwinter Nights. I should be able to find an inexpensive used copy of the Platinum edition. And then mods? yea!!
I’m currently re-playing Baldur’s Gate 2 right now. Man what a good game! The stronghold quests, familiars, the door that opens with the Rogue stone. Love it. And Torment: Planescape kicked some ass. I wish BG2 had the 3 dimensional character portraits, those were cool. I know it isn’t feasible, just wishin.
I was responding to the OP in a somewhat mocking fashion, because I’m kinda, you know, old school about certain things.
The very fact that you are bitching about
just strikes me as being deliriously funny.
While I do like computer games-- I own Blades of Avernum, and really like the fact that anyone with time can build scenarios. I’m also a regular player at kingdom of loathing and urbandead – I don’t consider them ‘role playing games’, because they aren’t. All computer games have very limited options, especially if it comes to making interesting characters. MMORPG or not, all players eventually get funnelled through the same process, and there invariably ends up being a ‘best’ character to have.
And if some punkass bitch goldfarmer can develop that character, then sell it off to someone willing to spend a bit of cash, well then all the prep school kids are going to end up spending their massive allowances on ubercharacters, which is no fun for you.
In a real role-playing game, that doesn’t happen. The GM can tailor the game to what you want to do, and the characters you and your buddies have chosen to bring to life.
Look, man, I am not. I am bitching about the lack of them.
The heck they aren’t. The mere fact that they aren’t completely run by AI’s able to create new quests doesn’t mean you can’t create and develop a role of your own. Sure, there are limits to the game. But those limits can be pretty wide when done right.
Yeah, and if I want to play one I have to travel 35 miles through heavy traffic and deal with a bunch of idiots who couldn’t game their way out of a wet paper bag. I have never seen anyone ever play through an epic, dramatic storyline, for the simple fact that they’re not realistic and rarely (read: never) supported by the ruleset. I dont get the same experience out of PnP as I do out of video games. Deal with it.
I have to agree with most of what the OP said. I’ve tried a wide variety of MMOGs and wound up quitting all of them. Star Wars Galaxies is a prime example. Please tell me in which move did Luke run around killing small creatures for cash? I was so put off by SWG I refuse to buy any other MMOG until something original, and I mean original, comes around.
I must say, after 13 years on a single MU*, that text-based RP is a viable source of multiplayer RP. Mind you, a lot of it is centered around sex. Depending on the MUSH you choose, it might be almost exclusively sex. ShangrilaMUX tends to have upward of 400 people connected at a time, but it’s all sex, all the time. I"m having a hard time getting anybody to play ordinary things like oh, lead-up. And plot. And anything that leads into further storytelling. However, with 400 people, there’s always hope, and I’ve found a few wonderful, intelligent storytellers who write well. But it is TEXT.
The other MUSH, AmberMUSH, is much smaller (avg 40 people) but the player base is most 20, 30, and even 40 year olds (who were mostly teens and twenties a decade ago when the game opened). I find my RP there to be largely satisfying, and the best thing (given your rant) is that you won’t find 10 year olds trying to cyber with you. You will find some damned good storytellers, a lot of long-term storylines, and a certain amount of sex, along with the usual complement of wierdos, munchkins, twinks, and the occasional psycho - just like any game. Or real life, for that matter. One nice thing about the long-term, smallish player base is, if you have questions about a certain player, it’s a pretty good idea you can get general information, like whether they have a reputation of being fair, or jerks, and their general age and gender.
But, it’s text. I find the text based games are losing their player bases across the board to the graphic games. For people who are more visual, I can understand that, but IMO nothing beats the absolute flexibility of the written word, which has no limits except the imagination and vocabulary of the players involved.
there are plenty of MU*s not centered around sex… try Mud Connector . If you like just roleplaying, and don’t mind text… you can try to find a RPG on IRC, or other chat services… it’s pure people, and if you find a good one, they are usually pretty nice. However, that doesn’t seem to quite fit what you want…
Did you pay any attention at all to the story? Of course not, because there was “too much stuff to read”. We’re here to click on the mouse and bash orcs on the head, not to read stuff and try to understand it, dammit!! Oh! And it was depressing. You bet it was a sad tale. It was called Planescape : Torment, not Planescape : Hollywood.
) I’ll finally be upgrading to a newer system in the next couple of weeks and will finally be able to run Neverwinter Nights. I should be able to find an inexpensive used copy of the Platinum edition. And then mods? yea!!