Well, I am pretty sure I would have noticed that, as I went to every concert around then…and usually was close enough to see everything that goes on, I also watched every live video back then that came out. What would he be recording it on? They didnt have phrase samplers that could do that sort of thing back then…
I can only imagine you mis-understood what you saw, but If you could give me a song title, I probably have it on tape. somewhere.
They have had tape loop devices since the 60s… I owned one myself, although I didn’t use it the way he did… Had a small cassette cartridge, only not shaped like a casette tape you’d buy with pre-recorded music on it… The tape was a solid loop, similar to an 8 track… And yes… They did have solid state versions of them in the early 80s…
Your right, of course, I should have qualified Neil as such. And Palmer and Bonham would have been on my list as well…Along with Buddy Rich for that matter.
However, having read a lot of stuff written by Peart and Lee, especially Peart…I cant see them having much of an ego. They tend to make fun of themselves a lot. They play the three stooges theme at most of their shows as an intro…They even did earache my eye(the cheech and chong bit).
I have read Geddys posts on his message board, and he seems very down to earth, and not at all egotistical.
I am currently reading Neils book about the motorcycle trip he took across Canada and the US after his wife and daughter both died(within about 6 months of each other)…and his coming to grips with his life being torn apart. And he comes across as anything but egotistical…
Alex, admittedly, I know little about…Other than he hates sythesizers.
I forgot Buddy Rich… He’d be on my list as well…
Ah, that would be a tape echo. with a cartridge, and echoplex more than likely(I like the space echos, but it was much harder to change the tapes)
Solid state in the 80’s would be an analog delay line, maybe as much as a second or so, but usually less.
Now I can see where he might have played something into an echo with a long decay, and started playing something else as the echo kept echoing in the background…That was rather comon back then…That would be very similar to looping a phrase sample…In fact, kind of a blurry line between the two. Not that either is particularly evil…
Bev Bevan was alway one of my favorites as well…I dont know how technically good he is , but…
And Roy Wooten…Sort of…I mean, is he a drummer? Where do we draw that line…
Howyadoin,
Arguing the merits of a band that has been very successful for 30 years is like arguing religion… If they were some buncha chumps in a bar band and you’re ripping on 'em, whatever, but…
Their longevity and ability to reinvent themselves over the years is notable, if nothing else. Thirty years of big selling albums, and the respect of most of the top-flight musicians I know, means more IMHO than another person’s opinion, as valid as it might be in their own world-view.
Knowing how hard it is to keep a band together, the fact that they aren’t just phoning it in at this point, or even retired, is pretty damn impressive. They certainly don’t need the money, they are all filthy rich. They don’t need acclamation, they’ve won every award there is, including the Order of Canada for their charitable works.
There are bands in their genre like Dream Theatre that might be better in the present day in terms of musical virtuosity, but they’ll be the first to acknowledge the influence that Rush’s commitment to making music with more depth and skill than standard issue power-trio pap has had on them
I’ve seen almost every Rush tour in the past 15 years, and they are actually more impressive each time I see them. The sampling and sequencing stuff that the OP references was really prevalent in their '80s work, which relied on layered synths, Taurus pedals, triggers, click tracks, etc., all of which made their live show rather static, as they were (particularly Geddy) slaves to their pedals. They were seemingly obsessed with proving the point that they really could reproduce the material on their albums note-for-note in a live setting, which detracted from the interaction and jamming that have become more a part of their live shows. The albums and tours since Counterparts have been almost minimalist as compared to Power Windows and Hold Your Fire. Much more guitar-driven, less synthy.
Like I said, this is like arguing religion, there is no accounting for musical tastes, apart from respecting professionals, shunning poseurs, and giving people on the way up support.
-Rav
P.S. The “Greatest Musician Who Ever Lived” died penniless in a gutter somewhere, and we will never know their name. Everyone else is just second place, no point in trying to put them in order at that point, right?
-Rav
You know, its strange that I like Rush so much…Nothing could be further from the style of music I play. Im a blues player, I’m into improvosational blues, I never play a song the same way twice, and I consider that a virtue. Rush, OTOH, plays most of their stuff precisely as it is on the album, which in their case, I consider a virtue. I guess thats the whole thing, you look for differant things in differant types of music.
According to Neil, in his book, he fully intended to retire after his wifes death. I havent got that far in the book, but I guess he re-considered.
Probably true. I have played with several musicians that just couldnt make a living of it, and hung it up who were world class. THere is a bass player I know that was absolutely incredable…He got so disgusted with it all that he hung it up, loaned out all his gear, and doesnt even have a bass in the house anymore.
I know Alex likes PRS guitars. Props to him.
About Geddy being the best of his “type” of music, it’s hard to really categorize them. They sound more like hair metal to me than 70’s heavy stuff, but in hard rock in general I could name a few bassists…JPJ from Zeppelin, John Entwistle, and for prog rock, the guy from Dreamtheater. I’m not a big fan of theirs but he is talented.
Some of their early stuff was somewhat metal-like, but their later stuff is much differant.
I’m far from a knowlegable music critic.
but…
Rush’s music makes me feel gross, cold, alone, empty… and NOT in a good WAY, and that’s all I need to agree with you, Splanky.
I used to use Pert because it came in a pretty green bottle. But I shave my head now, so shampoo is kind of irrelevant.
As are so many things.
It’s true that for a time they relied on sequencing for a great many things. But I think that comes from a desire to perform the songs as they were recorded and only being a three piece band.
In fact, in the 70s and 80s they used to limit how they recorded songs to arrangements that could be reproduced on stage. They would also give themselves one song per album that they wouldn’t play on stage so they could go wild with the effects and synthesizers.
Now, of course, you can reproduce anything live at any time. So they do. But it’s also turned them away from playing ALL the new stuff. For their peak years each album would have 6-8 tracks and they’d play all but one of them on the tour for that album. Now that CDs are longer there are more like 10-12 songs per album and they only play about half of them. I do find that disappointing.
And, curiously, I once heard an interview with Buddy Rich where he stated that Peart was one of the two or three best drummers he’d ever heard. It was around the time Peart was producing the Buddy Rich tribute album.
I don’t hate Rush. I’ve never actually heard a Rush song.
But I hate the idea of Rush.
They sound terrible. They sound absolutely awful. For a start, they or one of their key members apparently was well into Ayn Rand, which turned me off right from the start. I mean, Ayn Rand! It’s like trying to like a band once you’ve discovered that they held up Hitler as an idol. Well, not quite, but still…
And then I hear about their music! When the best thing that can be said about a band is that they were ‘great musicians,’ warning bells start ringing in my head. When people say this, they’re usually referring to techinical ability. I saw Lou Reed discussing guitarist in a documentary, saying that people consider great guitar playing to be like acrobatics - how many notes per second or how many difficult tricks the muscian can play. When someone is refered to as a Great Musician, it usually means they were one of these guitarists: ridiculously fast, and just as often, unbearably soulless and overblown (Van Halen anyone?).
So, yes, I am coming from an position that is both uninformed and biased. Because even great musicians in a great band aren’t known primarily for their great musicianship. Take the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Great musicians, but they’re known for much more than that - their party starting funk, their energetic live performances and their incredible transcendent ballads, where the great musicianship becomes more than great muscianship, and is something truly wonderous.
But Rush? All I hear is “great musicians.” “No-one plays their instruments better than they do.”
The more I read about them, the worse they sound. Live performances exactly identical to the studio versions? Drum solos? They sound like soulless machines (with exceedingly large egos).
But like I said, I don’t hate Rush. But when I finally do get around to hearing them, I fear that I will find them unbearable.
I also hate Rush, I hate the Vocals, I cannot stand his Voice.
Well, a lot of people can’t get past that. My mom, for example.
gex, it’s true that you hear people refer to them as great musicians. And I believe it’s true that in the rock world no one is a better drummer or bassist than Peart or Lee. But there is a certain feel to their songs that’s very good. But it does tend to be an intellectual thing sometimes.
And I’m trying very hard not to slam the Chili Peppers. Ugh.
OK, just one. Anthony Kiedis has to be the worst lyricist the world has ever produced. A few weeks in the Brill Building would have served him well.
Um…sorry.
With all the incredibly lame, prefab, weakass bands out there, you choose to pick on one of the most talented, original and intelligent? Sure they might not be to your taste but there are very few musicians that would not see them as talented. I disagree that that the solos are unimpressive. They are much more original/creative, well thought out, inspired and emotionally moving to me than the other 97.6% rock solos I’ve heard. Best or not, Peart is an accomplished drummer. His style is fast rock drumming, not slow tasteful jazz. It does fit the music. Most other drummers can only wish to be as good. Same with Geddy on bass. All three have been voted (by other musicians) best many times in various musician magazines over the years. Steve Howe and Chris Squire are good too but there is nothing that they can play that Alex and Geddy can’t. The rest is just what you like. I admit that I don’t like anything after Grace under Pressure but I still would never classify them as hair metal or hacks. By the way, 2112 is a masterpiece and it was ground breaking and original in its time.
I would put the total IQ of Rush fans up against the total IQ of fans of just about any other band in the world (except for King Crimson lol) and I bet they would win. Ok, I am rambling, that last point wasn’t relevant and was silly. 