I think many of the homeless described here are severely mentally ill. The problem is: most states do not allow someone to be institutionalized (against their will). In fact, the ACLU defends the “right” of the homeless to live on streets and freeze to death. We simply have to acknowledge that some people need to be locked up. Next time you are in san Francisco-take a look at what the homeless have done for that city.
Seems like a good argument to me. The reason that they don’t have a place to conduct bodily functions is that they abused the privilege, causing them to be shut down.
…ness problem?
It’s a complicated problem no doubt. But being homeless, regardless of the reason, shouldn’t mean you get to use other peoples means of livelihood as a public toilet or aggressively accost potential customers. I sympathize with people with addiction, I’ve been there. But I never thought the town owed me sleeping and pissing in the street because I was down on my luck.
What’s wrong with loitering laws? Public drunkenness laws? Panhandling laws?
Before living here I lived an hour south in Monterey. They had all of those laws and it was a nice, clean safe place to live.
I’m not suggesting we discard the homeless, yes, set up programs. But that doesn’t mean they get to spoil it for everyone else in the meantime.
Sad story. By the way, Clucky is a generic nickname for a crackhead.
Come on, you cannot possibly believe this. You’re saying these people NEED to shit in businessowners’ doorways because there are no public toilets? No. Sorry, but fuck no. There is not a city I’ve been to - hell, probably not even Manhattan - that you cannot find a bush or tree out of the way to drop a steamer behind in an emergency. Shitting on someone’s doorstep is deliberately provocative. These people either think it’s funny or rebelious. They’re not doing it out of desperation. And how would providing public restrooms be free?
What is it with homeless people and libraries? The downtown branch of the Phoenix library is crawling with them too. It’s the only place I ever see homeless here.
:rolleyes: Lack of compassion is not wanting to help the acutely homeless who want to help themselves and need a leg up. I don’t see anyone here taking that position. Bleeding heart dipshittery is blaming the businessowner when the homeless shit in his doorway. Some people do seem to be taking that position.
Frankly, if anything, I’m constantly surprised by the number of socialists and anti-capitalists on this board. Yeah, we’re hurting at the moment (and believe me, I’m hurting badly), but our system has served us well.
I hate beggars. I realize that some of them may actaually need help, but I’ve had far too many people jump in my face and beg and refuse to take no for an answer. I’m sure some of them actually need help and I donate to charities set up to help them. But i refuse to give money to beggars…especially the ones that won’t leave me alone.
I’ve probably told this story before somewhere on the boards…in Amsterdam last spring with some friends. we were leaving, going to the train station for the long ride back to bavaria. My boss, our friend Becky and me. Well, a beggin’ dude comes up to us and gets all in my grill asking for money. I told him no. My boss (We’ll call him Bill for that is not his name) ignotrf him and kept walking. He’s an older guy, but a former Marine and looks like it. So the begger wasn’t going to challenge his Death Stare. He left Beck alone too, he focused directly on me.
He stayed in my face even though I kept walking and saying “sorry dude, I can’t help you.”. He kept up begging saying “Gimme some change! Gimme something Gimme something Gimme something!”. (true words, too, he repeated “gimme something” like a prayer) I stopped the can’t help you stuff and went directly into “Ok, you’re pissing me off. Leave me alone.”
Just then a couple of cops came around a corner. Beggin’ Benny saw 'em and walked away. He stayed with us…at a respectable 15 or so feet away but he kept following. As soon as the cops were out of earshot he jumped directly back into my face and started the “Gimme Something” crap again. I lost it. i dropped my bags and started screaming “leave me alone, M Fer, or I’ll kick your F’ing ass!”
Beck ran up to me, surprised to see me blow my stack like that. Bill stopped and turned around…he’d never seen me really angry. Beggin’ Benny looks all confused and says “You’re angry.”
For some reason that mad beck crack up, even as I was yelling as the guy. He scampered off, but I was so pissed off it took me a half hour to calm down. So I really hate beggars, especially aggressive ones. For every dollar a might have given someone really in need, they make me take it back. I refuse to give anyone money on the street.
This is not a recent slowdown; for many people, they have been feeling squeezed for the last eight years:
We are not served well by a system that has been gamed so that incomes in the middle class are going down.
Free water, free bathrooms, and if they’re from a nearby shelter it’s likely they have to be out of the shelter during the day.
This is the United States where you also have the right to be crazy, as long as you are not dangerous. And, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Yes, that is a problem- chartities go where the homeless are, whcih bring in more homeless, which bring in more charities…
Don’t blame the homeless for that, it was me. My one-man revenge against thread shitters. Now who’s next on my list?
Anybody have statistics on the breakdown of the homeless population into:
- Untreated mentally ill
- Drug or alcohol addicts
- Physically disabled, but not mentally ill or addicted to something
- Acutely homeless (never heard that term before)
- Hobby homeless (never heard that one either)
- Just plain lazy
or similar categories?
Also, which groups commit what kinds of crimes and at what rates? I would imagine, for instance, that addicts lead in theft and that the mentally ill lead in public defecation.
I’m not a homeless-hater, but I’ve noticed that the density of homeless kids (usually young white kids) in Portland is completely nuts. I was jogging in the Willamette-side park a couple of years ago, and a fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilthy young lady disengaged herself from the pack of homeless folks she was hanging with and jumped in my face.
Her: For $5, I’ll let you watch me pee!
Me: I’ll give you $5 if you’ll run around this track once with me.
Her: 
Fascist!
Me: :keeps running:
No one is suggesting that taking a dump in a public doorway should be encouraged. If you want to rant, that’s fine. But the fact remains that it’s too expensive to jail people who abuse public spaces. It’s impossible to continually round up the undesirables from your neighborhood and move them to places where they can’t panhandle. They come back. Every day. If you permanently move them from one spot, they will take up residence in another spot and the problem continues. They aren’t going to go away. Homeless shelters are often the last place the homeless want to be. They’re often dangerous and overcrowded.
I don’t know what the answer is, but it is going to involve tons of public funds to feed, clothe, shelter, medicate, treat, and train an ever-growing number of people who can’t make it in this society.
At one of my Commission meetings we had a expert speaker, and the rough figures I remember were about :
50% are temporaily homeless, often living in a car or in a tent in the park. Sometimes moving from “freinds couch to couch”.
25% prefered the lifestyle.
25% were mentally ill or addicted. Of course some of the “prefers the lifestyle” coudl be addicts also, but they seemed to consider them addicts by choice (or they had their addcition under control), whereas this last class was more or less helpless without a major intervention.
A small % are actually Hobos os transient workers, who more often live in Camps. Often they aren’t even counted as “homeless”.
Not saying those figures are wrong, but they don’t match up with my personal experience. I think 100% of the homeless people I’ve met in my life have been mentally ill or addicted. I have a hard time imagining a bum who’s not.
I don’t think you’re seeing a lack of compassion here; I think you’re seeing intense frustration. Most everyone who is not poor is working to stay that way; we don’t see why we should work every day to keep our house/apartment, and we should also give money to people for sticking their hand out on the street. I think most people who you are calling lacking compassion would, if they knew it would absolutely make a difference, gladly pay a not-insignificant amount of money to eliminate the homelessness problem. We know that it isn’t that simple, though, and we also know that there are programs everywhere to help these people.
Most of us also know that things are exactly as people have said in this thread. People won’t look after themselves, so why should everyone else be responsible for them? I can’t make a mentally ill person take his meds. I can’t make a welfare queen get her tubes tied. I can’t make an addict stop using. What I’m seeing in this thread is blowback from decades of nobody dare blame people for problems of their own making.
I’m not so sure where I indicated that business owners are to blame for the homeless crapping on their doorstep, nor am I sure where I stated that I don’t want to help the downtrodden get their feet back under themselves. I actually think it is rather rude to defecate on anyone’s doorstep, truth be told, and even if someone is homeless they get to play by our laws regarding deceny. I’m also totally for helping out those who can be given the proper opportunities to get their lives back together.
What I don’t get is that because some people have had bad run ins with some homeless that they have decided to write off an entire class of people because of their fortunes. Wow. Just wow. I’m not so sure I could get away with that with many other classes of people. I’m gonna try feeling the same way about amputees. I had a bad run in with one the other day, and boy did he get my blood boiling. Fuckin’ amuptees.
You won’t run into category 1 in the streets very often.
When are you going to say something in this thread that doesn’t deserve a :rolleyes:? I was going to write up why every point you made in this post was stupid, but quoting it so that everybody can see it twice will more than suffice, I’m sure.
Oh noes! Guy on teh intarwebs thinks I r not so smart!
Now I will respond with a dismissive statement! And rolleyes! :rolleyes: