So, other economic systems don’t have addiction and mental illness? Or are you saying that Capitalism causes addiction and mental illness?
BTW, no one is forced to act in a way that unbridled greed and acquisition are the primary motivator in their lives. Holding down a job doesn’t require that sort of mentality nor is it a prerequisite.
Does it seem to anyone else that this is getting worse though? Like we have more fuck-ups, more people that are just broken and unfit for modern society? Because it sure does to me. So, what are we going to do? The Darwinian answer is to let the fuckers die. Round those people up and eliminate them. They are dragging the rest of us down, after all.
I suspect that we don’t really have the stomach for that. So, what are we going to do? Ignoring the problem doesn’t seem like it is quite doing the trick. Is it possible that the answer to “why should everyone else be responsible for them?” is that some of us can see that this is necessary? How much human misery are we willing to tolerate before we do something about it?
A lot of us avoid the situation by avoiding public transit and the problem areas.
Its not the homeless that is the problem, but the winos and the drug addicts. They are even more of a problem for the legitimate homeless who are forced to share shelters with them. The addicts are far more tolerant of each other.
That is why I would propose massive shelters on the outskirts of town with free wine and drugs including clean needles , free potato chips, and large screen televisions. That should hold them there, and reduce the crime rate as well and generally keep them out of sight.
With that scenario in mind, teenagers might well be deterred from succumbing to the influence, public transit usage will rise and more people would be happy to shop downtown. Legitimate homeless will be better served as well.
No, but not all systems have inadequate and underfunded mental health and substance abuse treatment systems.
Uzi, That is kind of a complicated question. If I had to state my opinion I would say that our brand of Capitalism (you know, the kind where we have privatized profit and socialized loss) contributes a great deal to a host of social ills. Not as much in a causal way (I tend to think that we are born with the potential for addiction and mental illness) but in that it dramatically exacerbates the problem.
OTOH, a shelter enables one to have as much of a permanent address as possible. A good one, like the Salvation Army shelter I was in for the better part of '90, can lead to a better situation.
I agree, and some are better than others. My boss and one other person supervise the PADS shelter in her neighborhood overnight. This is in a good neighborhood; not too scary. They are a good stepping stone for those who fell on hard times but had been in the system/society and aren’t suffering from addiction or mental illness. It’s the latter group(s) who, for whatever reason, don’t accept assistance or can’t live within the rules or adapt to structure or whatever. I tend to think that of the three groups we’re discussing here, the homeless like you are the smaller group.
I wonder if it’s the other way around - modern society has fewer niches for the just-plain-broken and the irremediably-fucked-up. Perhaps once it really was easier to scratch out a marginal living with few skills and little effort.
10,000 foreclosures a day. Today living in a home. Tomorrow according to this thread a disgusting, stinky waste of a human. Sweet people on this board.
I lived in shelters etc. for close to a year back in 2004. I ate at soup kitchens, I did day labour. In my experience there are groups of the homeless. I knew some people who wouldn’t work a day for a lifetimes leisure, and I knew some that desperately wanted work - not day labour - but could not land a job.
I remember one guy that I overheard in the Mustard Seed (Calgary) supper line who would have had a job except that you had to supply your own work-boots and he didn’t have a pair or the money to buy one. He was hoping the Mustard Seed would have one but they didn’t.
I also remember a core group of kids who I’d assumed to be runaways. They had the feel of people that had been on the streets a decent time and the oldest of them was 17 or so.
What struck me most about the majority of them was the sameness of them all. In a sense it is like being in a different culture. The manners are diffierent, behaviour is different and norms are different.
I don’t hate the homeless as a group but I do hate individual homeless people as they give me reason.
For a long time I’ve said that the poor are the only group one can be socially-acceptably bigotted against. Now it’s occured to me that the homeless may be our Untouchables.
I think it’s both, and I think it’s because we don’t have enough low-end jobs anymore. I know most people are saying that we won’t go back to the old ways of people doing the work. If we accept that, how will we support all the people who would have been doing those jobs because that’s the most they can aspire to? I don’t know about you, but to me, there are three choices: either bring those jobs back, provide government and/or private support for more and more people who can’t earn a living, or watch society collapse.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-21-homeless_N.htm Heres some more evil people for your hate lists.
http://lahsc.org/wordpress/educate/statistics/united-states-homeless-statistics/ Heres some stats. Hate away.
From that - 25% of the homeless nationwide are employed.
I heard a comedian recently say, “Fort McMurray, Albetra; the only place in the world where the homeless make $40 an hour.”
Everyone’s a hero in their own way.
But not, apparently, in this thread.
That’s all nice, but I’ll still call the cops on some fucking bum taking a shit on the sidewalk.
The point is that people don’t hate the homeless for being homeless, but rather for the unsanitary and uncivilized actions that they take in public.
If homeless people went and shit in the woods or parks or under freeways or something, people probably wouldn’t be so pissed off. Same goes for peeing, etc…
It’s kind of like secondhand smoke; they have the right to be as gross, stinky and crazy as they like, but I’ll be damned if I ever agree that they have the right to make me put up with it because they couldn’t/can’t get their shit together.
I believe it was. Almost anyone could stare at the wrong end of a horse while plowing, and feed themselves.
On the other hand, you knew if you didn’t plow today, you wouldn’t eat tomorrow, and without chopping wood, you’d freeze to death. This tends to be a motivator to get off your ass and work. No time for pissing and moaning, or to suffer from low self esteem when you’re chopping wood.
In our modern society, that’s not a concern. When is the last time anyone starved to death in the US? (Eliminating any instances of someone who was held against their will, etc.)
The government says you should spend 30 % of you income on shelter. When you work for 8 bucks an hour., assuming 40 hours,( actually they keep it under to avoid benefits) You take home about 270 a week. That would mean you have about 330 a month for a place to live. Good luck finding one. Then utilities. You just can not make it. Sorry ,you can work full time and be homeless…and stinky.
I think that what contributes more to social ills in our society is the emphasis on individual rights vs. public responsibilities. As in, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country” type of responsibilities. Recently, the homeless were granted the ‘right’ to put up tents in public spaces in Victoria, BC. It is nice that someone took the time to lobby for the rights to do this, but will they be responsible for keeping the parks clean and ensuring that the majority of people who want to use the parks for their intended purpose can do so safely?
OK, assuming you really want to know.
I gave up 8 years tenure at a civil service job to move closer to my daughter.
Her mother’s been in poor health, and I moved closer to make the catch. She’d been in and out of the hospital, and her folks and I tag teamed a while, but it was a 600 mile trip one way for me.
So I cashed out my retirement funds to move.
My partner had been wanting to move too, but a different direction, so we amicably parted ways. Just the way life is, ya know? The condo was her place, but my name was on it after I helped her with a refinance. Cash out, of course. :smack:
The deal was, I’d sink some money, and fix the place up, partner was to sell it or rent it.
It was decided it was too much trouble to do absentee, and basically spaced the place. I jumped in way too late, and didn’t have the income stream anyway.
Some nihlist friends of mine were getting fucked by a landlord, and used the place a while. Did some work, but paid no rent, and copped out on a hypocondriac excuse. The mold was in her head. Never rent to friends (or nihlists).
I’ve got professional work, but it’s on call, as needed. Nothing in the summer, and that’s what got me.
I kept myself afloat a while, selling possesions, and my mom paid one month’s rent for my birthday. My first $300 bucks each month went to the support clearing house, and sometimes there wasn’t much more, after rent. Living indoors is an expensive habit. So, I started shopping around for a place to pitch a tent, and found one.
Ironically, the lady who’s land I’m living on is my daughter’s Mom’s former best friend.
Unfortunately, my daughter’s mom, who’s in much better health now, is easier to get along with 600 miles away. She’s got issues like a circulation desk, and has used family money to re-open custody issues. Good timing on her part, but a ridiculous suit.
Blood drinking isn’t even illegal.
But, today, I’ve snagged an extra shift as a comestible transportation specialist. I had a second full day at my ‘real’ job (it comes half day or whole, as I’m needed), and I’ve met a budding dominatrix named Samantha… I focus on the good stuff I still got, ya know? It’s not getting what you want, it’s wanting what you have.
So, for now, I’m OK, but I’m merely the Donald Trump of the local bowery crowd.
A one buck man, in the kingdom of the broke, If you will.
Yeah, this is how it starts. And yes sir, I am med compliant, today.