Here in Las Vegas (and probably every other major city), the large number of homeless people is a problem of some concern. A local advocacy group for the homeless was feeding them in one of the public parks, was prevented from doing so by the police, but have resumed since a judge decreed that the local law regarding the feeding of the indigent was unconstitutional.
I have to admit that I’m on the fence here. On one hand, many homeless are alcoholics, drug addicts, or mentally unstable; I can’t say I’m comfortable with the thought of these types of people gathering in parks where our children play. OTOH, I feel some measure of empathy whenever I see people living on the sidewalks, pushing grocery carts with all their possessions, or even begging. I mean, I don’t know whether they are there through their own actions or a series of mishaps or what. For whatever reason, it breaks my heart to see anyone living like that.
The person who solves this problem would probably win a Nobel Peace Prize, but so far no one seems to have a solution. Some sort of public works project like the WPA during the Depression could more than likely take care of those who are able to work, but what about the rest? It just makes me sad that one of the richest nations in the world, a country with so much in the way of opportunity, can’t come up with a viable way of ending, or at least significantly reducing the magnitude of, this situation.
I’m sure that there is enough blame to go around; finger-pointing will certainly not solve the problem. My question to my fellow Dopers is: What ideas do you have? Any practical ideas? Impractical ideas? That Peace Prize is waiting!
This is a very very tough question, and living as I do where there are a lot of homeless, I wish someone COULD come up with an answer. Unfortunately, as you point out, many homeless (I would venture to say most?) have problems that extend far beyond the problem of poverty that Gorsnak mentions in post #50 of the thread you linked to. I do think that one of the main problems with solving the problem is a lack of cooperation by the homeless in terms of working within the system that we already have in place to help people in need (not that this system is perfect by any means). Many, many people avail themselves of this system, and therefore have a place to live and food to eat…certainly not high living, but at least not out on the street. Why do some more or less choose to reject these opportunities? Are they not aware of how to get help? I doubt that is the case for many, because when necessary, they will go to shelters, and the shelters would certainly hook them up with social services if desired. I suspect for most of them it’s because they have problems that cause them to find it very difficult to live within any system, or even with what we would consider to be “normal” society.
An even more important question might be what can we DO about the fact that these opportunities are rejected? Can we force people to live in public housing, or force them to go to some kind of institution where they could get help? I don’t see how that would be constitutional. We have an organization in my area where various churches take turns hosting a shelter for the homeless, and many people show up consistently to warm up or get something to eat, and I suspect it is such a successful program partly because of the fact that it is so informal…the churches will help the folks further if they want it, but what it really seems that they want is to get the immediate need fulfilled, and then move on. It’s really, really sad, but it is reality. I guess I can’t see the law being able to step in and say “we are going to be sure you have a place to live for your own good.”
And when Jesus was in Bethania, in the house of Simon the leper, there came to him a woman having an alabaster box of precious ointment, and poured it on his head as he was at table. And the disciples seeing it, had indignation, saying: To what purpose is this waste? For this might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. And Jesus knowing it, said to them: Why do you trouble this woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. For the poor you have always with you: but me you have not always.
Matthew 26, 6-11.
Not that I’m saying the problem in insoluble, mind, but it hasn’t been solved yet. At least, not here.
A not-insignificant number of the homeless are mentally ill and should be in an institution. Sorting this out would be problematic. I blame Reagan for this problem.
Folks that are homeless due to circumstances other than mental illness should be able to more easily access help. I believe that we, as a society, should provide more assistance to homeless folks in the areas of drug/alcohol addiction treatment, job training and placement, and temporary food/shelter/healthcare. That is, for the ones who are willing to use these tools to improve their situation.
Once we’ve done the best we can for numbers 1. and 2., those remaining (the ones who refuse assistance or opportunities to get off the street) should be subject to vagrancy laws that are rigidly enforced.
Poor farm/workcamp for the 3 time losers on vagrancy laws.
I realize some of this is pretty impractical… :o
This is about the only solution for some. There are homeless in the local churches’ coalition center that have lived there since it opened**, 11 years ago**. These long termers have reached their comfort zone, free food and dollar a day shelter. Some are on disability and some work at a day labor agency for drug money.
But the problem, for most homeless, is the cost of housing.
Back when minimum wage was $1.75/hr houses rented for $50/month.
Now the wage is $5.15 and renting an apartment is $600/month.
Well, first is making decent affordable housing available to those who can live in it. When it is financially more profitable to tear down decent old apartment buildings and houses and build malls and high-end condos, one cannot fault the private sector venture capitalist for putting his money where it will make the most.
Meanwhile, the low income folks live in poorly-insulated, poorly-maintained expensive-to-operate dwellings (apartments or cheap cottage-style houses) and often in more than ought to be accommodated per dwelling.
HUD programs have been massively unhelpful in combatting that problem.
And if one loses one’s dwelling – say if the owner decides to sell it to be torn down for the above-mentioned construction – one may well end up living in an old car, or taking shelter in an abandoned building, or whatever.
Once you have addressed that problem, you’ve cut the number of homeless and ill-housed by a large percentage. Then you can tackle the mentally ill, etc.
And don’t forget that “mentally ill” =! crazy. We have bipolar members here and one schizophrenic, all living stable healthy lives under medication (so long as they’re able to keep getting that medication, as people “reform” programs by making them all private-sector voluntary efforts that you pay for yourself). I will lay odds that members in each of our large cities who want to try the experiment can within three days find a homeless teenager who left an abusive home and has not found any legal way to survive – and is probably technically “mentally ill” from the anger and self-hatred the abuse caused in him/her.
I think many homeless people are invisible. That is, they don’t look any different than you or me. They work real hard to maintain their clothes and physical hygiene. They may live in cars, at cheap motels, or shelters. They spend the day at work or looking for work, perhaps using the resources at libraries. They aren’t the ones begging on street corners and doing crimes. They’re just normal people trying to survive.
I think these people can be helped with affordable housing. People seem to think there is an infinite number of public housing units. In some areas, there are long waiting lists and it can takes a very long to get housing assistance. Other areas don’t have public housing, so even if you’re lucky to have a job in these areas, you may be SOL when it comes to finding cheap housing. In Miami, a public housing scandal has greatly contributed to the homeless problem. So public housing in its current form needs to be improved before we start talking about all the help that’s out there.
I think much more drastic legislation will be needed to deal with the more visible homeless people. As liberal-leaning as I am, I think it should be against the law for people to take up residence on sidewalks and parks (although I am in favor of intown public campgrounds, where people can pay a small fee to live outdoors, if they wish). I think homeless people who are arrested for breaking vagrancy laws should be given a choice: jail time or rehabilitation. And if they keep falling off the wagon, they should keep getting arrested.
I know it sounds harsh, but I really don’t think it’s fair that people should be accosted by aggressive beggers or have to deal with public nuisiances associated with unbridled homelessness. We will always have poor people amongst us, but I think we’re selling our society short if we don’t think we can improve things.
A major part of the problem is that, even if you’re not mentally ill to begin with, living on the streets for an extended period of time can screw with your thought processes in a big way.
Because you can’t cook food, you are reduced to eating cheap fast food and candy/cookies when you can afford it, and three-day-old bread donated to the local shelters when you can’t. Stick to this diet long enough and the mind dulls, believe me.
I’ve lived in shelters(it was a while ago, and I’m doing much better now, thankyouverymuch), and I can see why some people would rather sleep in alleys. To get sleeping space in most shelters, you have to stand in line outside for hours sometimes for a chance to sleep on a dirty pad next to people you don’t know and certainly don’t trust. The time spent in line for that chance is not spent in rehab training or looking for programs that might help you, even if you could get bus fare to where these programs are(usually in some industrial area due to the NIMBY factor.)
If a person who lives on the street somehow manages to beat the odds and finds a semi-permanent shelter, he is probably afraid to leave that situation. He has seen so many programs either get their fundings cut or been shut down that he isn’t willing to trade a semi-sure thing for a slim chance for betterment.
Since any application for a job will be sent directly to the round file if the applicant doesn’t give an address and/or a phone number, some shelters allow their residents to the shelter’s address and phone number for job application purposes. This is mostly useless, because most businesses have a list of the local shelter’s addresses and phone numbers, and round file those apps anyway.
This thread from November is relevant I think. And I still stand by what I said in that thread.
Unfortunately, I think there will always be some form of chronic homeless. There are adequate resources and assistance out there for those that experience acute homelessness and want to remedy that situation - but you have to earn that assistance by proving that you can be reliable and willing to help yourself as much as the agencies and shelters help you back up also. I do grant the lack of affordable housing is increasing the numbers of acute homeless, but the vast majority of those are just that - acute cases.
I do think that more resources need to be devoted to those that want to end their homelessness but cannot due to mental illness and/or substance abuse. There are several excellent programs throughout the nation that can serve as role models for this effort, and in reality, it is lack of funding, not know-how that prevents assistance from being delivered.
(What few case workers there are now are severly overworked and have to fight battles both with uncooperative clients and uncooperative/financially strapped bureaucracies. Throwing 20,000 more ‘troops’ at this effort would reap greater rewards than anything we hope to accomplish overseas.)
In regard to the chronic population that simply refuse to be part of the system, I dont know of anything that can really be done without major violations of civil liberties, and as much as I disagree with the choice, I think choosing to be homeless is a ‘liberty’ in our society. We can certainly enforce laws concerning public drunkenness, sanitation and trespassing, but forcing anyone to work against their will was outlawed a while back.
I think the core of the problem is just the law of numbers. .1% homeless in a population of 1000 can go unnoticed, or its just the ‘village drunk’, but .1% in a nation of 300 million…
I would attack the unemployed, first by shelling their homes with artillery, and then, when they run out into the street, mowing them down with machine-gun fire. And then, releasing the vultures.
I know these views are unpopular, but I have never courted popularity.
Well, I am of the opinion that the mentally ill homeless should be confined 9against their will, if necessary). having a mentally ill person freeze to death (because he/she will not go to a shelter) is unaccepatble. as for the homless degrading the cities; this should NOT be allowed. there is NO reason why people should be allowed to camp out on sidewalks. sorry, but being compassionate (ala san Francisco) doesn’t work-you just get more homeless. As for chronic alcoholics and drug addicts-these people are breaking the law-put them in rehab, and jail 9if they reoffend). Oddly enough, if high standards of personal behavior were observed, we probably would have much cleaner cities. of course, people who lose all self respect are a proble, as V.S Naipaul obsereved “the world is what it is. Those who are nothing or allow themselves to become less than nothing, have no place in it”
Pointing fingers might not solve the problem but if you understand why people are homeless you can address the problem. We have all sorts of programs designed to help people who have lost their homes. I would venture a guess tht those folks we see who are habitually homeless for years at a stretch are simply beyond our ability to help. That is, we’re never going to be able to help them find stable jobs or housing and maybe the best thing we can do for them is help get them hot meals and a safe place to sleep once in a while.
I’m not for one second saying that there are no homeless people in the UK, I’m sure there are but I don’t think I’ve ever encountered one.
What did amaze me was the number of homeless I saw sleeping under bridges when I was on holiday in Boston and later on in Chicago.
I don’t know what the solution is, I only know that when a policeman saw me giving money to a homeless person one morning he told me not to do it as I would be hounded every day by the same guy.
I wasn’t, I never saw him again but every day I gave money to at least one homeless person, sometimes I bought a pizza and took it to them.
Vermont has no laws against PI (public intoxication), for example. It’s only if you’re doing something else that is against the law that you can get arrested (and most likely jailed overnight for protective custody).
