If you loved democracy, you would have respect for the democratically-established laws.
Why don’t you go on sabbatical in North Korea and then complain about what a “police state” America is?
Of course they are human beings. Just not the kind I like.
And I am always perfectly polite to them and have no desire to fight anyone armed with guns, a taser, pepper spray, a billy club, and an entire army of backup at their command.
Don’t worry about my BP, it’s 90/60. If I got more relaxed I’d lose consciousness.
I am happy to present my ID to non-cops upon request.
I didn’t vote these laws in, did you?
And I did not say America is a police state. Yet.
That sort of says it all right there, doesn’t it? Basically, you have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to cops asking you for ID…something you are quite happy to provide in a sheeple like manner to some kid asking you for exactly the same thing for pretty much the same reason, to verify who you are and how old you are.
So, this isn’t really a libertarian ‘I love America and democracy, actually. Freedom and civil rights’, more a ‘I hate cops’ thingy. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up, and I really hope it works out for you. As I said in the Pit thread on the recent dust up with the LAPD, myself, if a cop asks me for an ID I feel about the same as I do when some pimply faced kid asks me for an ID to buy a beer…a resigned shrug and perhaps a rolling of the eyes, and then hand the damned thing over and get on with my life. YMMV of course.
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You see them all as thugs, right? I’m guessing your body language says to all of them, “This is ‘trouble’ headed your way. Come have a chat and see what sort of ‘trouble’ it is.” You don’t want the dance? Stop throwing invitations.
IOW: take the stick out of your ass and stop walking like you’re looking for a fight with anyone in a blue uniform.
Yes, I did. If you’ve chosen to waive your opportunity to participate in the democratic process, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the fact that the laws of the land don’t reflect what you’d like them to be.
Nor will showing your ID to cops turn it into one.
Ah, Smapti, the poster child for the excluded middle argument.
How about AnaMen goes to England, or France, or Germany, or Canada? There are more choices between America (Love it or Leave it ™) and North Korea.
FTR: I’ve been stopped by a cop exactly once, when I was ~8 years old and riding my bike in a dangerous manner. The only time a cop has asked me for any sort of ID was in conjuction with insurance information after I had been rear-ended by some out-of-towner yakking on a cell phone in a rental that he just picked up.
Other that one time when I was riding my bike, I’ve only had positive experiences with the police. Including my sister’s nutty ex and the officers from the local PD who patrol our condo complex at night. Greet them with a smile & wave and they don’t behave like thugs. Shocking, right?
He thinks America is turning into a police state. I merely suggested he visit an actual police state and get some perspective on that comment.
While I am not an American-hating jackanape, I can give a POV on this one.
Clerks only care about the birthdate, if you’re buying beer, or that the name and face match the credit card. As soon as they hand you back the ID, they’ve already forgotten it.
Police, on the other hand, sometimes fill out contact cards (or whatever the 21st century electronic equivalent is), so they often do keep a permanent record.
It’s not what they do with that data that’s the real problem, it’s that they keep it at all. It’s the perception of trust, or lack of, from the police. We as citizens shouldn’t have to prove we’re *not *doing anything wrong. The burden should be on the government to prove we are.
I live in the UK, you don’t need to provide ID for any of those things- well, assuming you’re over 18 and look it (some places have policies of IDing anyone under 21 or 25, but that isn’t a law, I’ve not been asked for ID for ages now, and it averaged only about once a year since I hit 20).
I provided ID when registering with my doctor 6 years ago, but have never been asked again for any medical needs (actually, I was asked if I had any for surgery, but that wasn’t required, it just made the forms a bit faster). Not even when seeing a consultant, or going to the hospital for treatment. In fact, both the repeat prescription requests and the prescription forms have an option for ‘I have asked someone else to pick up my prescription’, which just require a signature.
My driving licence lives in my wallet out of habit, but neither of my parents carry any ID at all, they just dig it out for special occasions.
You may be required to identify yourself, but that doesn’t necessarily include showing an ID. There are other threads where the lawyers on the board have gone into great detail but the bottom line is in many (most?) situations, the cops have no right to see your ID and they can’t do much of anything about it. I support anyone’s right to only comply with was is legally requested and to refuse to comply with requests that aren’t legally required.
Feel free to show the cop your ID if requested. Understand that it’s not usually required nor do the cops have much recourse if you refuse. Standing up for your rights is not a crime, nor should it be looked on poorly.
Going out of your way to antagonize a cop is probably not the best way to go through life, but I’m not seeing that happening here.
While that has been my experience as well, I wonder about what could have happened.
When I was younger, I got pulled over in Marina Del Rey/Culver City for ostensibly speeding (I wasn’t speeding, but I was accelerating perhaps a bit too much!), so it was a fair stop. But, I got hauled out and frisked on the side of Jefferson Blvd. I’m like, wow, this isn’t Adam-12 anymore. Frisked for a traffic stop? I guess that’s what the big city is like?
My car was a primer Road Runner, and I wasn’t dressed in a business suit. Did that have anything to do with the cop’s actions? I dunno, but when he found out where I worked (the big aerospace firm on the other side of the fence) he apologized and let me go in a hurry. A benefit of white privilege? I have always wondered what would have happened if I was a working class dude, or black. Would the results be the same? Or would I have gotten a ticket for DWB? No way to tell.
While I think there is value in people asserting their rights when challenged by police, I wonder if you have ever dared to be arrested for your cause.
Here’s a guy who was willing to be arrested for his ideals. It’s a twofer: first, the store clerk believed he had the authority to demand to see the guy’s receipt for an item he had just purchased (truth: he has no such authority). Second, he refused to show ID, even when the cop threatened to arrest him (truth: you’re not legally required to carry ID, so you can’t legally be arrested for refusing to show it; however, you can be illegally arrested, as this fellow discovered). He backed down from his lawsuit against the city when he saw that it was causing strife for his family, but waddya know, now there’s one more cop who has a more complete understanding of the limits of his authority.
Moral of the story; Sometimes it’s a lot easier for everyone involved to just show the clerk your receipt and move on with your life.
Store employees are asking for my ID to confirm my age, not to see if there is a warrant to arrest me. It’s not a subtle difference, fool.
…is there?
Completely false, but are you under the impression that “body language” is illegal? Luckily, not yet.