No, I don’t think so - although there’s a risk involved. You grab the collar behind the face, minimizing that risk, but only if you’re stronger than the dog, of course, because you can control to some extent what the dog can do. Hold him by the collar and push down so he’s either prone or at least sitting. (If you don’t think you can “take” the dog, forget it.)
Most dogs respect humans, in the sense that being grabbed and pushed down will calm them a little. Now, if the dog it completely nutso, then this is most assuredly not going to work and might agitate him further. But yes, if it were my dog he was going after, that’s what I’d do.
Dogs always go after cats, usually (but not always) wishing to do some malice. They see a smaller, weaker animal and want to make sure it knows who’s in charge. So instinctively, they’ll show aggression to the cat. This aggression is usually not as intense as when a dog is actually pissed.
Either way, delay tactics such as the hose, pepper spray, an air horn, what have you are useful because they don’t force you to use violence, which IMO should be used only if really necessary. Scare off the dog, then call the Humane Society and/or the neighbor to let the know what happened.
dantheman I have heard several times that you should never attempt to restrain an unknown dog by the collar if the dog is fighting, because it will react to movement towards the collar as an attack at its neck. But rather if you have to restrain a dog that you don,t know that is fighting you should pull it away from the fight by grabing and holding its two hind legs.
Wsa I missinformed about this?
I don’t have any facts for you about your rights. My first advice would be to talk to your neighbor. My second piece of advice would be to ignore the posts about restraining the dog unless you are on very good terms with it (which doesn’t seem to be the case).
I had to go through plastic surgery for a dog attack. It was not fun. How did my attack happen? I was at a girlfriend’s (now ex) house. The dog (my ex-girlfriend’s) pulled a hamburger wrapper out of the trash. I told it to drop it. It growled at me and lunged at my face. That’s it. That was all I did in provocation. It wasn’t like I was pulling the wrapper from its mouth. I was over 4’ away when it attacked. This was a dog I had known for 6 months and it’s not like the dog was in predator mode at the time. This was a 60lb or so dog. Yes, I threw it off of me, but not before I was spraying blood all over the kitchen.
Needless to say, I think your baseball bat idea is a lot smarter than trying to grab a dog’s collar when the dog is in attack mode already. I admit that I don’t know the legalities in your case. I also know that any neighbor of mine will need a new dog before I let myself, anyone, or anything dear to me get attacked again. I guess I’ll let lawyers sort it out later. It sounds like a lot better idea than needing doctors or EMTs.
Oh yeah, the pepper spray might be a good compromise.
Mm-hm. Never had a fifty pound dog try to rip your nuts off, have you? (I used to deliver flowers for FTD when I was a teenager.)
As to the OP – if an animal enters my property, and I believe it intends harm to me or mine (including the cats, the family, or even my bushes), I will act as I see fit to protect myself, the cats, and the family.
If the dog was simply peeing on a bush, it could be that letting him have it with a ball bat could be viewed as extreme.
If the dog was racing over, barking and growling and slavering and showing teeth, that dog is gonna say hello to Mr. Louisville, and damn the man who tries to convict me. Prove, if you will that the dog did not intend ME harm, simply because it was chasing a cat! Prove I didn’t know that it was rabid! And, of course, prove that your damn dog wasn’t going to rip my cat into confetti! My yard, my property, my rights. I won’t try to kill the dog, but if I feel that me or mine are threatened, on my own property, you’re not going to tell me I can’t knock that dog clear to Baltimore, if I feel it’s warranted.
Admittedly, bashing my neighbors’ pets is bad form. They certainly won’t vote for me should I decide to run for office, and I suspect that the next time our cat Fluffy tries to sun herself on their front porch, she may be in for an unpleasant surprise.
Whoopsie. That didn’t come out right. What I should have said was “Prove that the dog was not rabid, and how was I to know when it’s slavering and charging at my face?”
I’m not an animal expert, and I should have said so earlier (though I suspect most people in this thread aren’t, either.)
I would think that it’s going to be a lot more difficult to grab the dog’s hind legs than to grab its collar, simply because of the proximity of the collar to the human. Sure, it might well get pissed that you’re grabbing it anywhere, but if you have a hold of the collar you restrict their movement much more than if you have a hold of the legs. Even with the legs somewhat restrained, it can whip around and snap at you - a lot tougher when the collar’s held.
Now granted, people are going to react different ways, especially in the heat of the moment - it’s not like you get to plan these things out in advance. I would probably regret smashing a dog’s face in, but that might be just me; I’d much rather try to calm the situation by other means if I could.
I guess I operate under the idea that dogs aren’t inherently bad, they simply have bad owners. Killing or severely injuring a dog wouldn’t make me feel good and might not even solve the long-term problem, since the owners could get another dog, anyway, one that they could neglect and allow to run amok. Part of me just thinks they’re the larger problem; the dog is the immediate, short-term problem.
As a anecdotal aside, my dog was slaughtered by a pit bull a few years ago, so it’s not as if this has never happened to me. And yes, had I been there I would likely have done damage to the dog - but if possible, I wouldn’t have. And twice my current beagle has been attacked by dogs who were off their leashes.
This seems like the most practical suggestion of the lot. The most knowledgeable person I ever knew about dogs was Rosemarie Robert, of Dinro Kennels (Great Danes for 40 years). Rose kept a loaded water pistol at all times, for breaking up dog fights (not that they happened all that often, but she was a “be prepared” kind of person).
For your situation, I’d add about 1/3 ammonia to the water. The dog that won’t turn and tuck its tail (as it runs away) hasn’t been born, because the ammonia, which smells really bad to us, smells a hundred times as bad to him. Further, if any gets on his mucous membranes (eyes, nose, mouth), it will sting. There will be no permanent damage, and probably no more than 20 minutes of discomfort, max. And unless this is a particularly stupid dog, it shouldn’t take more than twice to condition him. Further, water pistols are perfectly legal (unlike tazers).
I would also try to find a time when I and my cats were inside, and I saw the dog leave his yard. Then call and report the dog as a stray. Just about every city and town in the US has a “leash law” which states that a dog must be “controlled” at all times.
I had cats as a kid, and a couple as an adult, but I’m basically a dog person. However, I believe in responsible pet ownership, no matter what kind of critter it is.
I weigh about 130 lbs. If I have to make a split decision about whether to reach for a 70 lb. dog’s collar (thereby placing my face within unreasonable proximity to his muzzle) and attempt to restrain him and thereby very possibly getting attacked myself, or to cream it with a baseball bat and risk the possibility of a legal proceeding, I’m going with the Louisville slugger every time. I’m pretty sure I can get the sympathy vote.
I can’t imagine a circumstance where trying to restrain an unknown, obviously aggressive dog, is a good idea.
Like I said, if you don’t think you could take the dog, then forget it.
However, if you’re choosing to kill or maim a dog when there are other options (e.g., pepper spray, water/ammonia, etc.), then you’re possibly exhibiting sadistic behavior.
I apologize for responding with opinions in the GQ forum. This is definitely IMHO.
Frankly, I’m shocked that no one has posted taking an extreme PITAish line on this topic. It seems like there are always people who would rather protect animal rights than that of a person. Maybe it’s due to the nature of these message boards that most people retain their common sense.
dantheman, I’m not really trying to single out your posts. They seem to be helpful and contain some good advice. Your suggestions of speaking with the neighbor and then authorities are very sound. The water spray shows moderation. I still don’t agree with trying to grab a dog’s collar when they are in predator mode. Most dogs have loose enough skin on their neck to allow them to twist and bite at whatever is grabbing them, to say nothing of twisting in a collar.
Replying directly to the last quote, I don’t think that I would take the time to go in the house and mix up some ammonia and water. I would grab whatever happens to be closest in the garage. Be it a baseball bat, shovel, or 2x4, it doesn’t really matter to me. This in no way shows sadistic behavior. It shows willingness to protect what is dear to you when it is endangered. To me being unwilling to do this shows… well… wussiness. (yes, that is a techical term)
First, we need to figure out what “predator mode” is. I’ve never seen a dog who didn’t chase after a cat, but when they do they’re not necessarily trying to beat the crap out of it - much as a dog chasing a car isn’t intending to gnaw it into little bits if it does catch it. Dogs love chasing things, and their frame of mind isn’t necessarily that of a predatory nature.
Second, as I said, I do not recommend grabbing a collar if you don’t think you’re stronger than the dog. Some of the smaller dogs, in fact, have amazingly strong necks. I will do this myself, though, because I am confident in my own abilities.
Third, you seem to be under the impression that the situation in the OP has happened exactly once. The word I noticed was “sometimes,” as in the dog sometimes escapes via the garage. Since it’s happened before, it might behoove the OP to take preventive measures, such as the water/ammonia, the garden hose’s proximity, and the pepper spray. It’s just good preparedness. (And, I might add, if one has the presence of mind to grab a baseball bat, one probably also has the presence of mind to get the hose. YMMV.)
Fourth, I think you’re unclear of the definition of sadistic, which is “a delight in cruelty” or “excessive cruelty.” If other options are available that do not cause harm but still solve the problem, but are summarily rejected, then taking a violent action is indeed sadistic. I would also point out that if one had those options and chose the more violent one for no great benefit, one might be in legal trouble, depending on the jurisdiction. A dog viciously attacking a cat? I see no reason not to defend your cat. A dog merely lunging at or chasing after a cat? The law may frown on your killing the dog. Again, YMMV.
Btw, I forgot to add the after the “wussiness” comment.
It looks like we disagree on this. I’m sure you are right that there is a risk of legal difficulties if you take a blunt object to a neighbor’s dog, even if it is chasing or attacking your cat. What I am saying is that after being attacked myself by a dog, I will not assume that a dog doesn’t have bad intentions. I also won’t take the risk that a dog would ignore a stream of water from a hose.
If I was in the OP’s shoes, I would try to resolve things with the neighbor first. However, if the dog does attack my cats on my property, I would defend them. By defending my cats, I would personally become a possible target for hostility by the dog. I would certainly try to cower the dog before actually hurting it, but I would most certainly hurt or kill the dog before I let it hurt me. I would much rather pay a few lawyer fees than lay on another operating table while a doctor stitches up my face and wonder how that dog attacked me when I had it by the collar. YMMV.
This doesn’t seem to be a problem for me though. My neighbors have foo foo dogs. My GF’s cats would kick their asses.
I guess almost all of these responses, including all of mine, are opinions…
A strange dog coming after your pets is never one to be trusted, certainly. But presumably when a dog has gone after your pets on previous occasions, you can tell what its general intentions are. A dog that’s barking, has its fur up, ears up, etc. is exhibiting predatory signs; a dog that’s not may not be in less of a pissy mood and more of a curious mood.
A few times while walking my beagle (~25 pounds), I have encountered dogs off their leashes. Most come over simply to greet my dog - sniff sniff sniff. Some, however, haven’t; they’ve come racing over and have gotten into it with him. The last time this happened, I did step between the dogs. But I would not recommend people do this on a regular basis; the circumstanecs have to be in your favor.
after the “wussiness” comment.