I figured someone would ask. Yes I did. I suppose I might catch some flack here because I did not specifically state that reading and writing ability is essential to the job. I guess that’s on me because I assumed that most people can read and write these days. The job applicant was personable and seemed quite intelligent. I had no reason to suspect that there would be any literacy issues.
I don’t recall the exact wording of the job description. I do recall using the phrases “creating and maintaining programming schedule”, “computer keyboarding skills” and “familiarity with MS Office”. I think that those phrases should have strongly implied to the agency that literacy was a key part of the job.
But the point remains that if you claim an accommodation from your boss or professor, they can verify it before giving it and not just accept your word that your entitled to it.
I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with any of that - the specific point I was making was that in order to prevent cheats and liars gaming the system, those with a disability must arrange their required accommodations with the school, and then (ideally) provide proof to professors that the school has agreed their accommodations. I don’t think anyone is claiming that professors should be able to review medical records before agreeing to grant an accommodation.
As the OP tells it, it seems to me that the student claiming accommodation for PTSD was more likely making this up because they simply didn’t study and wanted extra time to do so. If so, they are an asshole, not the OP. Of course, it’s also possible they did have PTSD and had failed to arrange accommodations for this with the school in advance. But in that case, you would think it could all be straightened out afterwards by following the appropriate procedure. It seems that didn’t happen in this case, which could be fault of the student, their doctor, or the school - but most likely they are an asshole of the type rightly condemned in the OP.
That’s interesting. I always took it on myself to notify a professor or supervisor. My current boss doesn’t know I’m covered by ADA because it hasn’t come up yet. But at the time I needed to take unpaid leave, I went to my boss first. I went to the professor first. My HR person isn’t someone I would describe as easily approachable. Maybe the employer/school should have a tutorial or something explaining how to get accommodations if you need them.
As a student, I had no goddamned idea what to do to help myself. Fortunately my therapist did. Expecting someone who is severely incapacitated by PTSD to do things by the book is a pretty high bar. I don’t know the student in question, maybe he was an asshole, or maybe he just didn’t know what the fuck he was doing or how to get help. I’d split the difference - the kid had PTSD that caused him actual problems, but was maybe pushing beyond what would be a reasonable accommodation. Whether due to laziness or a sense of learned helplessness, who knows? I’d rather deal with cheaters and ensure everyone who needed it had accommodations than subject every individual with a disability to a subjective litmus test.
*swearing for color, not anger. It’s good to clarify in the Pit.
Actually, it was more about looking at the test (studying the questions?) for 10 minutes THEN deciding he wasn’t in the right frame of mind (IIRC, his words) to take the test. Most student that want extra time to study just don’t show up on test day.
Exactly, which is why I listed their doctor and the school as other people who could be culpable. As in, when the student complained to the dean that they had been denied accommodation, I would expect the dean to direct them to an empathetic employee of the school to assist them in what they needed to do in order to obtain that accommodation, and go from there. It could certainly be a case of the student not getting the support they needed at the right time. But I still don’t think the OP is at fault in that situation. If professors agree to accommodations without any evidence they are required, it’s not fair on both the disabled students who genuinely require accommodations, and the students who do not.
That’s not this case if the student was correct and he filed his paperwork with the Student Services Office. They would have helped him develop a list of accommodations and then is expected to give me a copy of the accommodations for my records, usually at the beginning of the semester.
Sure. Which could have been due to PTSD, or could have been because they thought they were ready, but in fact had not prepared well enough. You acted in the only way to keep things fair for the class as a whole, IMHO.
Sorry, my point is that “filing his paperwork with the Student Services Office” is a herculean task for students with severe mental illness. I know because I had to do it. So the student, assuming he did have PTSD, was failed by someone. I don’t think it’s reasonable, however, to expect accommodations when you haven’t taken steps to get them. I don’t know exactly what you said to this student, but it would have been really nice of you to direct him to the Student Services Office. I would imagine a lot of kids fall through the cracks in this way.
Interestingly, I never had a professor ask for proof when I asked for an accommodation. The accommodation was usually a high number of absences, but eventually it got to the point where I couldn’t even sustain my course load with accommodations, and I withdrew from school on two different occasions, the first due to hospitalization and the latter taking me out of school for nearly a year, because that’s how long it took me to get approval from the academic board for a retroactive medical withdrawal. It took me seven years to graduate. In order to do it, I had to rebuild my life piece by painstaking piece and learn basic emotional regulation skills that most people learn in childhood. You just have no idea what people are facing.
Writ large, that’s the problem with mental health care in Western medicine. The burden of seeking treatment falls entirely upon the person whose condition makes it difficult to seek treatment, and there are substantial barriers to getting treatment.
In the university, it’s a lot easier. In our university, if you suspect someone is in crisis for any reason, you can flag it in the system and a professional will follow up—the person reporting never hears back, because it’s none of our business, but there are professinoals employed to reach out to students in crisis and help them navigate the system.
I do think that in many cases people are so upset about somebody getting something they don’t deserve, that rules are put in place making it too difficult for the people who deserve the benefits to obtain them.
A balance needs to be struck between preventing people from gaming the system, and making it easy for people who need the system to use it. Often the barriers put in place to prevent gaming also prevent legitimate use.
Sometimes the best answer is to not put in place any barriers, and not worry about a few people gaming the system. Many people find that very troubling—the whole “welfare queen” meme from the 80s. Sometimes it means that instead of accommodations for a needy few, the accommodations should just be made for everybody. Curb cuts help more than people in wheel chairs, quiet test environments help more than people with ADHD, etc.
Most universities and schools (what I’m familiar with) front load the process. Go to the right office, show them a doctor’s note (or whatever), and then appropriate accommodations or IEPs are put in place. That leaves lots of places where the system can fail, though. The “doctor’s note” can be difficult or expensive to provide. The accommodations may not be appropriate, or may not be properly followed, etc. Simply getting an appointment with the right office may be difficult.
Maybe things have improved. My case was twenty years ago at a major public university with about 50,000 students. I got help because I went to Counseling and Psychological Services on my own. Even though there are usually a limited number of sessions per student, due to extreme financial need, I got some kind of dispensation and worked with a therapist there for a few years. She handheld me through the entire disabilities process. And I got lucky in a lot of ways. The director of Scholarships found a way for me to keep my merit scholarships (since I did well in the classes I finished.) I don’t know why out of 50,000 students he decided to help me, but I remember him saying, “You have enough to worry about. I’ll take care of it.” I had only a paltry amount of undergrad debt because of him. I still think of him from time to time, as well as the therapist who believed in me. I hope people in those roles know how important they are.
My husband works with adolescents who have anxiety disorders and he spends an inordinate amount of time linking them to the proper services, writing to other professionals and making referrals and essentially trying to build this network of people who understand and can respond to the student’s needs. It’s a lot of work for one person, and I think he puts more effort in than the average therapist. It really seems to come down to the luck of the draw. It’s one thing to have the fortitude in the midst of a mental health crisis to seek help. But when you seek help and the help you seek isn’t helpful? There’s another barrier. It’s exhausting.
I’m increasingly beginning to feel this way, too. Being a caregiver, for example, isn’t a disability, but it certainly comes with a need for accommodations in some ways. I’m always thinking about all the people who are left out. But that’s what I love about my current boss - she’s not a micromanager, she really doesn’t give a fuck where any of us are as long as we’re productive. But it’s worth noting that none of us have jobs where, if we were out for a few hours, it would negatively impact anyone else. I could see it being a lot harder to swallow if someone’s flexible schedule created more work for you. I had a situation like that at an old customer service job in NYC. My commute was two hours each way, and when I was hired, I was told I could arrive an hour late and leave an hour late. Really pissed off my coworker, who felt the additional burden of that hour. We talked it through. In the end, I think I started coming in at the same time as she did. Never involved upper management.
Yes, they have. There are still specific issues and problem campuses, but by and large the whole system is a LOT better for students with disabilities, whether physical or not, than it was 20 years ago.
I can only go by what the student claims and he said he gave SSO his paperwork and I did refer him back to the SSO to get me a copy of this letter because if it was an accommodation and he didn’t give me the letter as expected sooner or lost it, he could get another copy, show me, and if the situation were accommodated I would have let him take the test. And I assume when he went to the dean, had the school had any paperwork I would have been informed and order to let him take the test OR the department would have co-ordinated with the SSO.
Truth. People bitching about other people being disabled and getting “perks” is offensive AT BEST, and truly despicable. Being disabled is hard enough without people assuming you’re faking it.
I can tell you that even with accommodations I was laid off. I worked from home (pre-COVID) on occasion because I couldn’t drive some days. I worked for a global company and every meeting included someone on WebEx. Many meetings had everyone on WebEx. Despite the fact that my entire job could be done remotely, a new VP came in and decided that everyone had to be in the office every day, all day. My lay off was bundled with a larger group, so “no discrimination”. I was there 10 years, and consistently got promotions, bonuses and raises, and excellent reviews. Yes, I think that fact that I have a neurological disease that was “invisible” directly contributed to his belief that I was “faking it”.
By the way, corporate America regularly plays this game with pregnant women too. You don’t get laid off because you’re pregnant, you get laid off because the company is doing layoffs.
Also, what he said.
I’m glad you’re posting again. You said this well, and I appreciate your diplomacy (even when I lack it myself).
Hell yes.
Saint Cad was clearly looking for more stories about those faking disabled folks. Everyone defending him buys into his garbage.
This is one of those threads where I wish I wasn’t learning how many of you are bigoted assholes.