Where did I say that? I have a pet myself (mutt cat). I was referring to breeding of purebreds done solely to create a dog that is aesthetically pleasing to the owner, not for any practical reason like to create seeing eye dogs or herders. Like to create different colors or smushed faces or whatever. These things have no physical benefit to the animal and are often harmful. (Persian cats often have breathing and eating difficulties due to their smushed faces and have to be delivered by Caesarian because their heads are so big.)
I think the practical benefit of spaying and neutering outweighs any mortality that may occur. Better one animal in a thousand dies than a whole litter gets put down.
I apologize for that. I’m a bit cranky right now since a lot of fine dog people I know are being lumped together with idiots like the one Catsix mentioned and the general hostility being displayed for animals I love greatly. I wouldn’t want to live in a world without my Shiba Inus (most people don’t care for the little devil dogs but I find them "unique’). Other people feel the same way about their breed.
I mentioned in another thread that I didn’t agree with breeding strictly for aesthetics or fads or extremes. It’s actually pretty easy to spot the people at the dog shows that do this - case in point the extreme angulation bred into some of the modern day GSD show lines. Those dogs couldn’t herd if they wanted to. These people annoy the crap out of me, but there’s not much I can do about it. AKC does not set the standards, the breed clubs do. And what drives the look in the ring is money - it comes down to who has the most money to advertise. You can finish a truly bad dog as long as you are visible or advertise. Sometimes that bad dog then goes on to influence the breed.
I doubt I’ll ever see a Shiba Inu Best in Show at say, Westminster, because Shiba Inu people are cheap. We’re too small time. I tend to think that’s a good thing.
When I live somewhere where I can have a dog, I want to get a Pembroke corgi. I’m hoping that I can get one with a tail- I’ve seen some Pembrokes with tails, and I think they’re cuter than the docked ones.
No responsible breeder should have anything to do with someone who wants to breed her dog so she can “make bank selling the puppies”.
Overhead? I just finished doing a cesarean section on an English Bulldog. The breeder has never had a bitch free whelp, they’ve all been surgical. Today’s litter was three puppies; today’s bill was $675. The puppies will also be vaccinated and dewormed prior to sale.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, just trying to explain one possible reason for high priced purebred puppies.
Why do mutts? Those so-called “designer dogs” that are selling for up to $5,000 a pup are nothing but mixed breeds. You’re lucky if the parents ever had a health cert done in their life too.
A good breeder isn’t in it for the money and is lucky to break even. My friend makes no money off her dogs. NONE. I’m lucky if I get to play with a puppy or two all year, since that’s how little she breeds. Any money goes right back into the kennel, health checks, shows, etc… all right back into the dogs.
Of course there is a profit motive. There are also entire litters that die due to herpes virus. There are litters that cost a fortune to keep alive due to parvo virus.
Personally, I would never want to create a litter of puppies. It is a big job. If I had to clean up puppy urine/feces for 8 weeks and I was paid minimum wage, what would the cost of the puppies be?
Plenty of free dogs around, nobodies being forced to pay $1000 for a puppy.
I will just use my dog as an example. The breeder had his dogs tested/certified with OFA, CERF, BAIR, etc. I’m sure this costs money for hip x-rays, etc. He also guaranteed my puppy and is involved with breed rescue. He will take back any of his dogs that he has ever bred and either keep it on his property or find a suitable home for it. He campaigns his dogs so I knew that the parents had a good enough temperament to deal with the stress/pressure of multiple dog shows. Not a big deal for some breeds which are happy-go-lucky, but it was important to me because Cattle Dogs are a little on the sharper side. I’m sure it is expensive to travel around going to dog shows. It was also worth it to me to pay for his breed knowledge and expertise. He knew exactly why he chose the two dogs he chose to breed, exactly what traits he was looking for, and exactly what those two dogs’ family history/genetics were. He spent a lot of his time grilling me about what my intentions were with the dog and what kind of pet owner I am.
All in all, I don’t think he ended up making much, if any, profit at all.
You must be thinking of backyard breeders selling all those cute little mixed toy breeds for $700 a pop, with no certifications and no guarantees. I’m sure these people are in it for the money. But they are not the responsible breeders that Anne was talking about.
This is the kind of breeder you want to buy from. That’s the kind of breeder I got my Jasper dog from. Thank you, Samm, for stating it so clearly.
There are a ton of breeders like this in the world. They’re responsible for most of the MIXED BREED dogs as well as a proportion of the pure bred dogs.
No, some Pembrokes are born with tails- it’s just that a lot of American breeders dock the tails. That’s probably because of their history as a herding breed (though Cardigans are also a herding breed, and their tails aren’t docked). I like Pembrokes’ fuzzy tails.
I’d love a Cardigan, too, but they’re much rarer than Pembrokes.
catsix- someone whose primary motive for breeding is profit is likely to cut corners on things like genetic testing, prenatal care for the mother, C-sections, checking out potential homes for the puppies, and rehoming them if they don’t work out for their owner. A breeder whose goal is to “make bank” on the puppies is less likely to care what happens to their puppies after they are sold- they might end up surrendered to a shelter on one of these lame excuses, and a breeder-for-profit might think “not my problem.” A good breeder who cared about the welfare of their puppies would screen prospective owners to try to keep that sort of thing from happening, which a breeder for profit is unlikely to do (because that kind of screening takes time, and requires you to turn down someone willing to pay for a puppy).
I’ve got huge issues with a lot of breeders, but the good ones don’t profit from the dogs, at least directly. The money goes into overhead, as vetbridge said, and all of the testing, paperwork, etc. to make sure the dogs are healthy and assets to their breeds.
I’ve already stated my opinion of dog shows. Why are your friend’s dogs sitting in kennels? Or are you counting her upkeep of her dogs as being subsidized by the money she makes selling puppies?
Is this supposed to make me think better of dog breeding?
I’m sorry to hear that he does that to them.
Maybe this has something to do with the fact that they were suited for working and not being cooped up in a house as pets?
Isn’t inbreeding extremely common with purebred dogs? I’ve read that it’s so common that in some breeds, most dogs are the genetic equivalent of the offspring of brother and sister. What about the black standard poodle? What about line breeding? This stuff, from the looking around that I’ve done, is extremely common.
Nope, I’m thinking about all dog breeders.
Because a dog just isn’t a good pet unless you can put it on the runway and make an asset out of it.
You’re missing the larger picture. It’s not just the individual costs of raising a puppy from birth to ten weeks, but feeding a kennel full of adult dogs, the costs of campaigning those adults at shows or working competitions to test their merits as breeding stock including travel and hotel stays, vet bills on all those dogs, costs of keeping a kennel including electricity and water and phone bills and all those things, toys, insurance, genetic and health testing like OFA hip x-rays, CERF testing, so on and so forth. None of those things are expendable.
In addition, you’re feeding that litter of puppies, spending all your time handling and socializing them, and doing puppy aptitude testing, meanwhile you’re not working much at an outside job during that time so there’s lost income there, or else you’re paying kennel help to tend and feed the mama and litter. You’re perhaps paying stud fees, you’re spending time interviewing and keeping in contact with potential puppy buyers and past puppy owners… the list goes on and on. The costs of properly breeding and raising a litter of puppies by a reputable breeder are outstanding, and done right they almost never make much, if anything off the litter.
Believe what you want about the motivations of breeders, but I will always, always buy a dog from a reputable breeder. No one will ever change your mind, and I don’t expect to, so… there you are.
And the breeders are only reputable because they turn dogs into spectacles by taking them around the country and putting them on display for their looks. Because according to you, it’s necessary to travel around showing off the dogs to prove that they’re worth something. Then there’s the whole thing about leaving them at a kennel or paying someone to look after your pets, which I don’t quite understand why anyone would bother to have a pet and then pay someone else to feed it.
The more the defenders of dog breeders say, the more abhorrent I think the whole thing is.
