And do you feel your employers were equally committed and conscientious to you?
Millennials are far more likely than previous generations (at least of recent vintage) to look with a jaundiced eye toward capitalism. Another thing I like about them.
accidental duplicate.
Maybe they were and maybe they weren’t. However, I was being paid to do a job so I did it as best as I could. I am responsible for my actions, not theirs.
Some would say that it should be a two way street: that you shouldn’t give your best unless they were giving theirs: decent pay, job security, etc.
I always seem to hear managers like the OP complain. But I always think to myself, they want these employees to make a commitment to them, but what commitment would they make in return? Would they entertain the idea of offering a raise, promotion, freedom from at will employment if these workers put in extra effort? Basically, would they make any extra commitment to them if they did more than the bare minimum not to get fired? But they say well they should put in the effort because of some moral imperative or some sort of thing that happens to be a very convenient financially for the company.
And, when it comes down to it, slavemasters used to complain about lazy slaves too, and how god wanted them to work hard and be good slaves etc.
I think it’s really just a case of avoiding the extremes.
You don’t want bosses to be tyrants, or employees to waste their lives away in cubicles, but you don’t want slacker employees either. Generations have a way of veering from unhealthy extreme to unhealthy extreme.
Right. I think a lot of them got very spoiled with workers who had that Protestant work ethic along the lines of what Antinor said (whether or not s/he is Protestant, YKWIM). Like a romantic relationship in which one party bends over backward for the other, but the second party just takes them for granted and throws them over for someone else when they get bored.
Although I have to say that the ones that don’t want to put the effort into a job they don’t think worth it is helping me right now. Due to some life issues, I’m in a job right now that is way beneath me. The incentive program is currently based on a ranking system so I’m getting paid more for not slacking. (First month out of training I finished at 3rd in productivity in a group of around 150 which were mostly tenured people there)
But there you go, there’s an incentive program. Would you be as willing to work as hard as you are at that job if there was no incentive program?
Personally, I think any job is worth doing right. That said, not all jobs are worth doing more than the bare minimum required. And that’s not just minimum wage type jobs.
I think it also depends on the industry, too. I reckon there are industries out there where it’d be easier to slack off/do the bare minimum.
What does this mean? Do they get their work done or not? If not, then fire them. But what it sounds like you’re saying is “they don’t do anything extra.” If that’s the case, just give them extra duties.
Yes. But honestly I don’t feel as though I’m doing that much ‘extra’. And I hate the job and plan to get out of it as soon as possible.
I do more than the bare minimum in my job most days because I’m passionate about what I do. I don’t expect that of other people. I definitely wouldn’t think less of someone who said they did only as much as necessary when their boss views them as cannon fodder to keep their regular employees happy.
This is sort of my perception of the different generations, based on my anecdotal experience dealing with alumni from my college. Keep in mind that I went to a fairly elite-ish school and most of my dealings are with professional types in the New York area, so my experience skews towards people that have at least some level of ambition.
Boomers - Basically seem to have lived a charmed life. These were guys who drank their way through their fraternity days in college and now most of them are CEOs of corporations and Vice Presidents in investment banks. These are the guys who show up on alumni day in a Jaguar with their still kind of hot for an older lady college sweetheart (or third wife) in a fancy mink coat. You get a sense that these guys grew up in a time more or less getting away with whatever they wanted because there wasn’t any political correctness or 24/7 news coverage of someone retweeting a YouTube link of their shenanigans. They more or less fell into high paying jobs by virtue of the business world still being a place for white men who drank a lot. Kind of like either fraternity from Animal House. Doesn’t matter if you’re a bunch of fuckups or the stuffy evil fraternity. They’re all still privileged.
Gen X - Like angsty middle children without a purpose. More independent and less tied to their career as something that identifies them. A lot of bouncing from job to job or taking on “alternative” jobs like startups or whatever. Whether they are successful or not, it always feels as if their lives are a bunch of constant decision of what they want to work at and how hard. Kind of like Ed Norton from Fight Club or Peter from Office Space or any character played by John Cusack.
Millennials - The ones I met do work hard and are very career focused. I remember once commenting with another Gen-X middle manager I met at an alumni event that a lot of these kids coming out of school have better resumes than we do. Lots of internships, extracurriculars and skills at stuff like programming. But they almost seem very robotic as if trained from birth to be perfect office drones. They’ll do what you tell them but only what you tell them. Also they’re not funny. While Boomers have that loud asshole humor and Gen X tend towards dry sarcasm, humor seems lost on the Millennials I’ve met. Maybe humor besides posting internet memes I guess.
Interesting!
Yesterday, I talked to my brother about this thread. He’s a Boomer who’s worked his way up from accountant/CPA to President/CEO - not all in the same company or even in the same field. He’s worked in a couple of hospital/health care networks as CFO, for an environmental company as CFO and VP and is currently in a software-related company, originally hired as CFO, currently the President and CEO. He also taught (teaches?) mergers and acquisitions at a local university. (I don’t know if he quit that gig or not - he was frustrated with lazy students.)
He never belonged to a frat, isn’t on his 3rd wife, tho he is once-divorced, never owned a Jaguar, and has gotten to where he is because he’s honest, he works his ass off, and he doesn’t tolerate BS from anyone. He got his MBA going to school at night while working full-time. He’s been headhunted into his last 2 jobs and he’s been the subject of at least one article in a business magazine.
I asked him about millennials, and he told me about a guy who works for him right now. This 30-y/o has done well in his position, and my bro was trying to mentor him, suggesting that he look for opportunities within the company and get the experience he needs to move forward. Just recently, my bro gave him a chance in a job with one person reporting to him. The Millennial immediately asked for a title and more money, just for having been given the opportunity. This was not a promotion - just an opportunity to work for a promotion. But when asked what title he wanted, he said: VP! Yep, because having one subordinate fast-tracks you ahead of people with 15 years of experience in a rather specialized field…
So my bro took a different tack and asked the young man where he saw himself in 5 years. The kid said: “Well, you’re planning to retire in 5 years, right? I want your job.”
So this kid figures at 35, he should be able to achieve what my brother worked over 40 years to accomplish. My bro asked him “What do you know about <list of stuff I don’t recall or understand>?” Of course, the kid had no answer.
My brother said he went to a seminar where they said millennials need to be rewarded for such things as showing up to work. So I guess getting to the office to do the job you’re being paid to do merits recognition. Seriously?
I’m so glad I was never in management…
If only I could find one of those companies.
Exactly. Why some Boomers think that all employees should run around looking for extra work to do is beyond me.
And IMO, a lot of younger employees may not have the experience yet to recognize what additional work needs to be done and what doesn’t. They may not be in the loop to find out what work is scheduled for later in the year, or may not realize what is out of scope for their department. They may not realize how the item that needs to happen might affect other departments.
I really wouldn’t *want *an employee right out of college just jumping in and doing something, because they don’t know the whole backstory.
I work with a woman in her 20s who’s very smart, but can’t differentiate between what is an immediate concern, and what isn’t. She sticks her nose into other people’s projects, brings up tangential issues, and will do things totally out of her scope of accountability that other people then have to un-do. It’s a pain in the ass, and I wish she’d knock it off. Our boss spoke to her about it and she got all huffy. Sigh.
Oh FFS. The dreaded 5-year question. Such a Boomer concept. When I was in my early 20s, I couldn’t have told you what I was doing in the next 5 months. Because I was in my early 20s!
I sincerely doubt that a lot of Boomers could’ve answered that question when they were 23 or 24, either.
What about when you were 30 and had been working for at least 6 or 7 years? Because when I was 30, I could see possibilities and a path - I knew enough to know I didn’t want to be a boss, but I had a pretty good idea of what I’d have liked to be doing. And the employee to whom the question was posed is 30 - shouldn’t he have a short-term goal or 2 at this point? Is that an unreasonable expectation?
On the other hand, it can be a totally ridiculous question. I was interviewing for a temp job after I’d retired. The guy interviewing me knew I was retired and he knew the position was a 6-month clear-the-backlog vacancy. When he asked me where I saw myself in 5 years, I almost laughed in his face. But I managed to simply say “I expect to be fully retired” and I got the job. It was a good gig, and 6 months was just enough for me to know that I didn’t want to be working any more.
Personally? I would not have had a 5-year plan at 30. So shoot me. I knew that I liked what I did (I worked in IT), but I didn’t know what the possibilities were outside of management-track. I had to do a lot of research and move to another area of the country to get on a track that fits me better.
I also don’t like the question in part because a young woman’s 5-year plan might include having kids and cutting back on work for a while. And I wouldn’t mention that until I was actually announcing my pregnancy and putting in for leave.