Nightingale said
Your were right, sweetie, to withdraw the statement. What it was, was criminal.
I’ll say Nightengale did the right thing by calling the cops. Should the parents suffer some stiff penalty? I think not. I tend to fall on the side of the more “hands off” approach to making lack of responsibility a criminal offense.
FWIW, here in VT it’s against the law to not have a seat belt on, no matter how old you are. There’s a fine involved, I think, which is the limit that that particular crime should be prosecuted.
I always always always wear my seatbelt. I will always insist that my children (if/when they appear) wear one. Do I think that someone getting stopped by the cops for having their children not in a seatbelt should get more than a stiff fine? Probably not. Legislating good parenting just makes me nervous, and seems like a pace I’d rather not have the government getting too involved.
another “is it fun or is it dangerous?” chat.
Do y’all let your kids do anything?
the tree-climbing was a good example, but let’s keep it in the babes-in-transit category.
What about those horrible people who refuse(d) to buy airline tickets for their little bundles-of-joy?
How good are mommy’s arms in event of an emergency landing?
Gonna call the cops next time somebody does that?
(btw - did that law ever get passed?)
- heathen (whose childhood scars are of the but-I-had-fun-getting-them type)
I remember all the fun I used to have as a kid, being the target for my dad’s knife throwing practice. Whee . But now I hear that the authorities think of that sort of thing as endangerment. Sheesh. Kids today will never know of the thrill of ultra-sharp knives ka-thunking into the wall just millimeters from their heads. Stupid laws.
(The above was satire. My father never threw knives at me.)
And what is the percent of airline passengers who survive crashes? At least if a child is in some sort of restraining device (child safety seat, etc.) there’s a chance in a car. If you have a plane at 35K feet and you lose control of that plane, not even Bruce Willis in Unbreakable is going to survive that crash.
And now to address Bubba’s piece of feculent brilliance, such as it is:
Exactly what parts of secure did the description in the OP match up with your ideas of child security and safety (and driver safety as well, for that matter. Child could just as easily have played peek-a-boo with parental unit)?
Was that the definitive list, Bubba? I think you missed a few dozen:rolleyes:
Okay, let’s suppose Little Girl 1 gets the idea into her head “Hey, I know what would be fun! Let’s play peek-a-boo with Mommy!” Before Mommy can do anything about it, LG1 has her hands over Mommy’s face. LG1 won’t let go! It’s funny that the car is swerving! Mommy’s screaming? Her hands are off the steering wheel? Dude! This game is fun!
And then LG1, along with Mommy and whoever else, go careening into a ditch. Or a truck. Or another car. Or off the road and onto one below (suppose an overpass) where their vehicle strikes another. Maybe even two.
The OPer recognized an already dangerous (and possibly much more so) situation and took methods to contact law enforecement to inform them of this incredibly unsafe behavior.
Holy Left Field, Batman! Where the fuck is this coming from?
And WSLer, re: “Mind your own f***ing business.”
I guess we shouldn’t report dangerous behavior (not just to the ones doing it. You share the road when you drive) to folks who can do something about it, right?:rolleyes:
Well, that’s great, heathen. I’m glad to hear that things worked out for you. But guess what? There are a lot of kids who never get beyond the scarring point to the “I-had-fun” point. Do you know why? Because they are dead.
Are kids going to hurt themselves? Yes. It seems to be a universal law that small children will always gravitate towards that object which will kill them fastest. It’s unavoidable.
But should a parent sit and watch as their toddler goes barreling towards the pointy corner of a coffee table? No. And should a parent just laugh good-naturedly at how fast Junior can slurp Dran-o? No. And in that same vein, a parent should not sit by and keep driving while their kid is moving around inside the vehicle unrestrained and putting their head out of the mother-fucking sun roof.
Kids hurting themselves while playing is a fact of life. But that doesn’t mean that parents shouldn’t do what they can to keep their kid from getting his/her self killed.
** iampunha**, dear -
Please learn the difference between an emergency landing (close to 100% survival rate for those strapped in) and an uncontrolled plunge from FL350 (now you know what it’s called).
You can survive a gear-up landing. You will not survive failure of the main spar at FL350 (or 500 AGL, for that matter).
Jester, moron -
The concept is “clear and imminent danger” - as an adult, I can tell if there is any probability of immenent collision/emergency braking/tire failure - if I know (car in good condition, road straight and level, no traffic in sight) there to be no risk to the kids, and they were old enough to know how to perform the trick, I’d let them.
The OPer’s tailgating, otoh, is criminal.
Hmm. I wonder how many graveyards you could fill with people who “knew” there to be no risk to whatever they were doing. My guess would be quite a few.
So, the Mercedes driver gets a stiff talking to from the cops about parental responsibility, and a fine to remember it by? Sounds like a good idea to me.
And where’s it say Nightingale was tailgating? It’s possible to read a licence number, even at ninety mph, from “a safe stopping distance” away.
Gah. Responsibility is exactly what should be legislated. But responsibility doesn’t mean “acting like me”. It means accepting the consequences of your decisions.
"Hello, police? You have to get over here right away! My neighbor’s child is climbing the tree in front of her house! What do you mean, ‘Please do not waste our time’??? The precious babies could die! I demand you arrest their entire family, and pass a new law making this… moral outrage… a felony!!!
or…
"Hello, police? Yes there is a family in a car ahead of us on the freeway, with children, and they are speeding! It’s against the law and if they get into an accident, the precious babies could die! What do you mean, ‘Please do not waste our time’??? I demand you arrest their entire family, and pass a new law making this… moral outrage… a felony!!!
or…
"Hello, police? Yes our neighbors have a pool, and there are children present! The precious babies could drown! What do you mean, ‘Please do not waste our time’??? I demand you arrest their entire family, and pass a new law making this… moral outrage… a felony!!!
Won’t somebody please think of the children!!!
Blech. Get off your high horse and mind your own damn business.
Someone reported an idiot letting toddlers WALK AROUND in a car doing 90 MPH on the freeway and you gits are telling them:
“Blech. Get off your high horse and mind your own damn business.”
“Do y’all let your kids do anything?”
"Sheesh. Give it thirty years and we’ll be legislating plastic bubbles for everybody under 18. "
“Sheesh what a bunch of crybabies in here, have we really come so far that for every act that does not completely fit out description of secure we have to call the cops?”
Wowsers Scoobie we found us some idiots.
In this thread the behavior described in the OP has been compared to climbing 30 feet up a tree; riding a mini bike and swimming unattended.
I just wanted to point out for you morons that a FREEKING 3 YEAR OLD TODDLER is too young to be doing any of those things and if I saw a parent urging their child on in any of these activities I would sure as hell call the authorities on them.
Are you guys nuts or are you just in denial about how stupid your own parents were to let you do this shit. A couple of years ago we has a high school senior die here abouts after riding on the hood of a car in the parking lot. It was doing about 15 MPH and had to stop suddenly. Talk to any paramedic who got to scrape Johnny’s crumpled corpse off the pavement after he “got to ride on the treat seat.”
Endangering your kids in a way that would be likely to cause death or serious injury is a felony in most jurisdictions and should be.
Riding mini-bikes, archery, swimming, horseback riding, climbing trees and any number of potentially hazardous activities have their place. All of these things can be done relatively safely with proper instruction. None of these activities has anything to do with letting toddlers walk around in a speeding car. There is no safe way to let a toddler walk around in a moving car. There is no precaution or safety training that will make walking around in a speeding car more safe. What the driver of the Mercedes did was stupid and hazardous. The kids in the car should not be forced to pay with their lives because the driver was this stupid.
End of story.
If you were unlucky enough as a kid to be left in the care of someone this stupid my heart bleeds for you. If you feel the need to now justify the stupidity of these adults so you can “feel good” about your upbringing then have at it. But understand that is what these “My old man risked my life on a regular basis and I had the time of my life” stories come of as.
Bottom line: Kids are unable to understand what actions might lead to serious injury/death. That is what parents are for. If the parents can’t handle this responsibility then that is what law enforcement and foster care are for.
How is that idea of responsibility affected when the consequences might include harm to a dependent person who can’t make the decision? I could see someone making the decision that the chances of an accident on a short trip to the store are extremely low so they won’t buckle their kid up. Do they have the right to do that on behalf of their dependent?
(I tried to make these questions non-rhetorical because I am genuinely interested. On the other hand, I was sickened by the woman at the quickmart the other night who had her 4- or 5-year-old get in the front seat with no belt. I don’t have kids but I still have a clue on how kids are to be kept safe in cars. I sometimes don’t wear my seatbelt (in states without the law) but I wouldn’t presume to make that judgment for a child in my car.)
Gasp! What a revelation! Not only has happyheathen gained a bunch of cool scars from his reckless youth, but he also seems to have developed omnescience! For how else would he be able to know beyond a doubt what hazards he faces at every moment!
Let’s take a quick tally of all the things that can go wrong when driving:
-A deer can run out onto the road.
-A rock could fall off an embankment onto the road.
-An overturned tractor-trailer could be just around the next embankment.
-You could hit a patch of black ice.
-You could hit a patch of oil.
-The bomb placed in your trunk by covert Al-Qaida agents before you left could suddenly explode.
-Magnus, Lord of the Underworld, could suddenly burst out of the pavement in front of you in his horrific, fiery glory, finally free to continue his eternal quest for fresh new souls.
-etc., etc., etc.
You never know every possible risk. Especially when you factor traffic (yes, there was traffic; Nightingale was on the road too, right?) high speeds, and not one, but two free-roaming small children into the picture. What happens if, as iampunha stated, one of them decides to play peekaboo with mommy? I noticed you conveniently skipped over that one. And yet you still tell me that barrelling down the interstate at 90 mph with unrestrained toddlers is a good idea? Give me a fucking break.
I also find it funny that one of your defenses is “Nightingale was going 90, too! She was tailgating!” First off, it’s possible to still read plates and follow at a safe distance. And guess what. If the car in question had had to slow down or stop suddenly enough for tailgating to be dangerous, lil’ Goldilocks would have gone sailing out of the sunroof anyway, whether Nightingale rear-ended them or not.
Eleusis, for your sake, I hope to God you’re being facetious.
ANY activity can be dangerous if it’s not supervised and done safely. It also depends on the age, maturity and skill of the kid doing it. I don’t expect a four-year-old to be able to know how to climb a tree safely, so he either shouldn’t do it at all, or he should be supervised. I also don’t expect kids to have good enough lifesaving skills or judgment to be able to swim supervised, so pools should be fenced and locked when not in use.
There is a little thing called criminal negligence. If a child dies in an activity that the parents knew or should have known would be dangerous, the parents can be held criminally negligent, and face civil liability as well. Not to mention the morality of doing something so stupid that a child dies.
Robin
I’m that experience came in handy when you grew up and joined the police force, T.J.
Err, I’m sure…
Damnit, I hate it when I out the verb.
The verb is gay?
Jester (still a moron)
I take you’ve never seen a straight road?
Yes, when driving, I can anticipate the near future. AND, GASP allow for the possibility of the unexpected.
If you cannot, please get off the damned road - you are a wreck-in-waiting.
At the very least, stay on your side of the Rockies, 'K?
Sure is.
pat
heathen and all the rest who are suggesting that people concerned about this should mind their own business, may I respectfully suggest that you go see a doctor? Your rectocranial inversion might prove hazardous to your health. More importantly, your rectocranial inversion might prove hazardous to my health; I don’t really give a rat’s ass what happens to you, and if you want to endanger your own life by doing something stupid, that’s fine with me.
Endanger my life, or someone else’s, by doing something stupid and dangerous, and guess what? It becomes my business! Clearly the hypothetical situation in which the car is in good condition, the roads straight and level, there’s no traffic in sight, and the kids are old enough to know how to perform the trick fails even to apply here, given that there was, in fact, traffic in sight (setting aside the issue of whether a 3 year old is old enough to do this responsibly).
As for this idiocy about the OPer doing something criminal by tailgating while the idiot parent in the OP is doing something perfectly acceptable, I’m stunned. Do the laws in heathenland differ that much from those in the rest of the country? And where can I get this omniscience of yours? It would prove quite useful and evidently would allow me to be even more of an insufferable twit.