I joined, and pledged support to Yes California today.

[dtilque]

@MoodIndigo1

California doesn’t need Nevada or any other state, it’s one of the least federally dependent states in the US (the least dependent are Kansas, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Delaware. (Cite: https://wallethub(dot)com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

That link was broken for some reason (don’t why you did that – there’s no reason to hide that kind of page). Try this one.

Considering that Oregon ranks 50th or 51st on DoD spending and California ranks near the top (and the DoD constitutes a very large part of the federal budget), I’m really surprised at their respective locations in that list. (OR at 19, CA at 46)

@Dahnlor

First, we need to take Oregon and Washington with us. Deny the USA its entire Pacific coast (aside from Alaska). We’ll need Hawaii, too, and then commandeer the entire US Pacific naval fleet, making us a superpower.

Just taking the Trident submarine base at Bangor WA would make it a superpower. That was, I believe, part of the backstory in Ecotopia, but that book had little relationship to reality. Just like this thread. Which doesn’t mean we can’t have fun in this thread.

Then we will need Nevada, too, or at least Hoover Dam.

Hoover Dam is pretty, but Grand Coulee generates far more power.

@buddha_david

Don’t forget Colorado,

Colorado, a west coast state that forgot to actually be on the west coast.

[buddha_david]

@Bear_Nenno

He would need one, too, considering all of the people fleeing that failed nannystate trying to sneak back into a country without power blackouts and tax day IOUs.

Oh puh-leeeze. If you want to see a failed state, check out some place like Mississippi. Many of the red states are in far worse economic shape than California ever has been, even when they don’t provide state programs like Medi-Cal and don’t spend as much for education or highway infrastructure and actually receive extra tax money from the fed gov’t. There are far bigger losers in the country than California.

And shame on you for even mentioning the blackouts – that was all the work of Texas-based Enron, taking advantage of loopholes in deregulation laws while their White House butt-buddies looked the other way and whistled aimless tunes.

[CoastalMaineiac]

Could California even sustain its own population without the support of the rest of the country? Doesn’t the state get a lot of its water and electricity from its neighbors?

[Bear_Nenno]

@buddha_david

Oh puh-leeeze. If you want to see a failed state, check out some place like Mississippi.

Why? Is Mississippi trying to leave the Union as well?

[mind_the_gap]

The only support for California to leave the union would be from the most densely populated urban areas of SF and LA. Maybe San Diego. Once you get about 50 mile outside of those places (whoops, forgot Sacramento) the state’s pretty red. Go north of San Fran just a little and all you see are “State of Jefferson” signs. Ain’t gonna happen, no how, no way. It must feel good for those involved though. At least it’s more constructive than teeth gnashing and hair pulling.

[Bear_Nenno]

@buddha_david

… that was all the work of Texas-based Enron, taking advantage of loopholes in deregulation laws while their White House butt-buddies looked the other way and whistled aimless tunes.

Do you think that by leaving the Union and separating yourself from federal jurisdiction, you will somehow create more intervention from Washington? And what were the California law makers doing that whole time California was being taken advantage of by Texas energy companies? Keep blaming everyone else for your problems, though.

[dtilque]

@mind_the_gap

The only support for California to leave the union would be from the most densely populated urban areas of SF and LA. Maybe San Diego. Once you get about 50 mile outside of those places (whoops, forgot Sacramento) the state’s pretty red. Go north of San Fran just a little and all you see are “State of Jefferson” signs. .

Strangely enough, most elections (Presidential elections are sort of an exception) are one-person-one-vote, not one-acre-one-vote. Funny how so many rural people think it should be the other way around.

[Morgenstern]

@Bear_Nenno

He would need one, too, considering all of the people fleeing that failed nannystate trying to sneak back into a country without power blackouts and tax day IOUs.

As the 6th strongest economy in the friggen world, I think CA would do fine. As it is we’re supporting (CA is a donor state) many states now.

How many senators/HR reps did you actually vote for, and now many of them are going to appoint the next justices to the supreme court? You’re letting people you’ve never had an opportunity to vote for determine who to appoint and setting policies you have no control over. I’m betting 98 of the current senators were never on your ballot, let alone 400 +/- reps, yet you’re bound by their decisions.

Yes, 16 billion wasted in CA seems like a better idea than 16 billion investment in Louisianan, Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky and West Virginia, and several more recipient states. Keep my tax dollar here, wasted or not.

Water issues? We have Northern California, they have lots of water.

We’re a solar power leader. We’ve built and are now operating desalination plants. One about 5 miles from me, adding water to the system every day. We have an unlimited supply of Ocean water too. A whole ocean of it. Powering the desalinization plants with solar will be next.

Water from Lake Mead (Colorado River water)? Did you know Lake Las Vegas feeds into Lake Mead, and that lake is where they dump their treated sewage water - the only provision being that the water returned can’t be more than 3% dirtier than they lake’s water already is. Thirsty?

Defense?
In 2015, the U.S. Government dedicated about 600 Billion dollars to the military. 600 billion of a 3.8 trillion budget. California would not need that because California hasn’t made enemies of 1/4 of the world. It’s unlikely anyone would ever invade California (other than those summer invaders from Arizona, but they are pretty peaceful generally.)

Debt?
California’s debt, per person, is about 11,000 dollars. The US debt is about 66,000 per person. California’s debt ratio is growing at a rate slower than the national rate. Calexit will slow that.

Trump?
He’s not the issue. YesCalifornia began in 2015. Way before that maggot appeared on the scene. A fringe movement it was, but Trump’s win has made people reexamine the benefits of Calexit. Trump just points out the failures in the system and this is a cure. A system that allows a person to gain a majority of the vote yet lose an election. Screw that, one person, one vote, and no middleman. Don’t think this is about Trump. Divorcing ourselves from Trump would be icing on the cake, nothing more.

[DorkVader]

@Morgenstern

snip

Defense?
In 2015, the U.S. Government dedicated about 600 Billion dollars to the military. 600 billion of a 3.8 trillion budget. California would not need that because California hasn’t made enemies of 1/4 of the world. It’s unlikely anyone would ever invade California (other than those summer invaders from Arizona, but they are pretty peaceful generally.)

snip

In the world where California does manage to leave the US without causing the rest of the nation and Canada and possibly (maybe probably?) Mexico to collapse into civil war, what makes you think that some other nation wouldn’t invade just because California hasn’t officially made any enemies yet?

[levdrakon]

@guestchaz

In the world where California does manage to leave the US without causing the rest of the nation and Canada and possibly (maybe probably?) Mexico to collapse into civil war, what makes you think that some other nation wouldn’t invade just because California hasn’t officially made any enemies yet?

What nation on Earth would ever consider it? Besides NATO of which it would probably be a member, the US is right there. Plus the other fabs, UK, Canada, Australia. No, no one is invading California. It’s not like it would be some pariah state.

[Morgenstern]

@guestchaz

In the world where California does manage to leave the US without causing the rest of the nation and Canada and possibly (maybe probably?) Mexico to collapse into civil war, what makes you think that some other nation wouldn’t invade just because California hasn’t officially made any enemies yet?

There are 38.8 million people in California. Probably 38 million of them own guns. That fact is probably not lost on any potential invader. I don’t think invasion is the problem as much as domestic terrorism is. That’s where the lack of enemies would make California less of a target.

[DorkVader]

I see what you’re saying, and don’t disagree entirely, but…
China might think about it, maybe. More likely I think, the scenario would be to use “domestic terrorism” to foster civil war within the nation of California and then the other nation can “intervene”. Heck using that scenario, the US is [del]just as[/del] more likely to “intervene” than any other nation. In my mind it would still be an invasion

[chappachula]

@Rick

what are you going to fight with? Bongs and dildos?

Thank you , thank you, thank you!
I needed a good laugh after a rough day at work

[buddha_david]

@guestchaz

China might think about it, maybe.

China doesn’t have the capacity to project its military power more than a few hundred miles beyond its shores. The search for MA370 revealed all sorts of logistical problems.

@Bear_Nenno

And what were the California law makers doing that whole time California was being taken advantage of by Texas energy companies? Keep blaming everyone else for your problems, though.

Watch Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room, then come back and we’ll talk.

[JohnT]

California is “the 6th largest economy” because it is part of the US, not because of a specialness inherent in California.

$16 billion? Out of a state economy the size of $2.514 trillion? Why, that leaves you with a mere $2.498 trillion to work with… no wonder you want to secede. :rolleyes:

But, yeah, if your reaction is to cut and run instead of fight… go right ahead.

[Rick]

@levdrakon

California’s National Guard is the largest in the country, and Guardsmen swear an oath of loyalty to the state (govenor?). The US military as been relying heavily on the Guard and Reserve lately so I’m sure they’re quite well trained and equipped.

The president could tell them they are now under his command, and I guess they’d have to choose. But yes, California has quite a military, actually.

Here is the oath of enlistment for the National Guard:

‘‘I do hereby acknowledge to have volun- tarily enlisted this ___ day of __, 20, in the ____ National Guard of the State of ____ for a period of __ year(s) under the conditions prescribed by law, unless sooner discharged by proper authority.
‘‘I, _______, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and of the State of ______ against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to them; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of _____ and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.’’

You will note the constitution and the president both come before the mention of the Governor.
Second problem is: Would you like to bet how many members of the California National Guard are rabid leftists and would support this? Both of them?
Try to secede and the California Nat Guard gets nationalized. You are then left with the hipsters of the elite 1st hashtag battalion of the 2nd Twitter regiment who will be armed with bongs and dildos. Because you know guns are icky.

[Morgenstern]

@That_Don_Guy

The Supreme Court ruled just after the Civil War that secession without the “blessing” of the federal government is illegal.

They already blessed it when the became a signatory to the UN charter. Chapter XI I’m told.

@That_Don_Guy

As for “dual citizenship,” what stops the USA government from demanding its full share of federal income tax? It doesn’t matter where you live, or where you made your money; you’re a citizen.

I suppose one of the more fun things will be evicting the IRS from the Republic of California once we’re formed. Then

@That_Don_Guy

And as for California’s military, does anyone honestly think that the first thing the USA government would do is demand that all of its weapons and ammunition, right down to the last .30-caliber bullet, be given back? Remember, it was the Confederates occupying Fort Sumter that started the Civil War.

Probably so. What would we need it for? I wonder what a fair price would be for leasing all that prime property they now use for Naval bases would be.

[Morgenstern]

@JohnT

California is “the 6th largest economy” because it is part of the US, not because of a specialness inherent in California.

It’s the 6th largest economy because OF California and Californian’s. Supporting the US is a money drain. That 16 billion is as it stands now. California won’t be supporting expensive things, things like a fleet of capital assets (aircraft carriers, etc) or foreign aid.
Money that could better be used for education and infrastructure.

@JohnT

$16 billion? Out of a state economy the size of $2.514 trillion? Why, that leaves you with a mere $2.498 trillion to work with… no wonder you want to secede. :rolleyes:

“a mere $2.498 trillion” - lolol
Again, that’s as it is now. Once more of the overhead is cut, it will go up.

@JohnT

But, yeah, if your reaction is to cut and run instead of fight… go right ahead.

It seems that we’d be fighting for every reason we want to be independent, not running. We’re not Anti-American, we’re pro-Californian. Fairness dictates that all states pay their fair share, not just a few. Why should California pay for programs for Alabama and Mississippi? We’ll take care of our own. You take care of your own.

[billfish678]

@Chefguy

They’ll need OR and WA just for the water pipelines they’ll have to build, which will create thousands of jobs. Then we take over Alaska, deport all the assholes (which will seriously and significantly lower the population), and build another water pipeline. Then sell the excess to AZ at exorbitant rates.

Using lead lined pipes would be a nice Democratic touch…

[ataraxy22]

Quebec would leave Canada, one of the most decent countries on Earth. California would leave the US, a country that would have lost its moral bearings and be sliding into something oppressive.

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