btw, these were the very same Mosques and Shrines that were on the US forces “do not bomb list”. They survived 10 years of war with the West without a scratch. I vividly recall news reports of American troops under fire from Mosques. The rebels knew we couldn’t attack a mosque or even go in and drag their sorry asses out. The insurgents defiled their own mosques by using them to store arms and bomb making supplies. Making them legitimate military targets. We still didn’t attack the Mosques. I have no doubt that this policy cost American lives and permanent disabling injuries. I fully understand the desire not to inflame the civilian population. We were also worried about inflaming Muslims outside of the Middle East. Protecting the Mosques and Shrines was a smart move.
So why the double standard? Where are the world wide protests? Where are the demands for Jihad against ISIS? Why aren’t fatwas being issued against the ISIS leaders? Remember Salman Rushdie’s book The Satanic Verses? He’s been in hiding for writing a book for over thirty years. :rolleyes: Remember the protests over that Swedish cartoon? Or the shit storm over that youtube video?
Anything the West does to offend Muslims results in them going ape shit. Protests, stuff set on fire, fatwas that send innocent people into hiding.
All this over a stinking cartoon or a youtube video. But you have a Muslim group bulldozing Mosques and and executing Shia. Where is the world wide demonstrations and calls for their deaths? I am so sick of the double standard. Calling the West the Great Satan. We’re under constant threat of terrorist acts at any time. Give me a break. The West is not the great Satan. We put our own soldiers lives at risk just to protect shrines and Mosques.
I’m constantly being told that the vast majority of Muslims aren’t radical and aren’t violent. I totally agree. The majority aren’t radical. Why aren’t they speaking up? If a radical Mosque opens in a city, why not confront them (with words and demonstrations)? Who is better suited to argue the Five Pillars of Islam and other beliefs better than the moderate Clerics? The only people that can discredit a radical cleric’s hate speech is the moderates. The moderate clerics represent the majority of Muslims. But so far, the radical Moseque’s hate speech continues to draw in new recruits every day.
Explanation: you’ve got it wrong. Many muslims speak up, and many criticize groups like ISIS. It’s incredibly easy to find many, many examples.
Sure, some have a double standard. As do some non-Muslims. But ‘Muslims’ is such a massive and diverse group that there’s pretty much nothing one can accurately say about them other than ‘they follow the religion of Islam’ that doesn’t also apply to non-Muslims.
For someone in hiding for 30 years, he gets around. During that time he’s been married to 4 different women, one of which is a decently known celebrity in her own right. He has fathered two kids, and has taught at Emery University and lives near Union Square in NYC. No telling what he might have accomplished if it weren’t for that fatwa.
I don’t really understand. Are you saying you look around Islamic blogs and you don’t see anyone speaking out against ISIS, or what exactly? Is your finger on the pulse of the Muslim community? Where do you expect to see what you say you don’t?
The United States doesn’t carpet bomb all the Islamic holy shrines while we take over their country. Are we not magnanimous?
More seriously, human beings are tribal creatures. We identify more closely with those more like us and more likely to excuse their actions versus those of complete foreigners/aliens. Just look at how we react to white Christian terrorists vs. Islamic ones.
That’s just protests. I didn’t include links to condemnations and calls to action from religious or governmental institutions. Or, you know, all the Muslims who are currently fighting ISIL, in the field, with actual guns and shit.
Protesting against murderers doesn’t work because they don’t give a fuck. What you’re seeing is a sectarian dispute here: it’s Sunni vs. Shia. ISIS hates the Shia and they assume the Shia don’t like them. They’re not going to care about protests from outside the country, and protests from inside the country would just make you a target.
Of course now you’re talking Muslims as if all of them give a shit about this stuff, which they don’t. You’re also missing some of the finer points, like the fact that nobody cared about the cartoons until some imams took them and made a big fuss about them and even mixed them in with more explicit images (fake ones) to upset people. Mind you, nobody should rise to that kind of provocation anyway, but it does help answer the question “Why did the public get so angry about those things?” Part of the answer is that people went out of their way to make the public angry for their own ends. That happened to Rushdie, too. It was a political issue for Iranian leadership.
Not really. But in the middle of your complaint that you’re being held to a double standard, spare a thought for the people who are getting murdered or being forced to flee from their homes.
That’s a fair point. Of course the U.S. was also the country that stupidly invaded in the first place, and that does take some of the luster off of that claim. But what you say here is correct.
Radical mosques? ISIS is a militia that claims to have killed thousands of people.
I would expect similar world wide protests to the ISIS destruction of Mosques. The youtube protests literally sprung up within 24 to 48 hours. update I see some links were posted. Naturally our own wonderful press has largely ignored them.
I have wondered if Christian leaders would have the courage and moral conviction to loudly speak out against any Christian terror groups. There are a few hate groups like the Westboro nuts but so far they haven’t advocated bombings or killings. They are tiny. Less than 20 people. Going after them might add members to their group.
If a fanatic Christian terrorist group did emerge then I would certainly hope the major religious leaders would do everything possible to deflect their hate speech. The leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention, the Pope and other Catholic leaders and so on. I think the only way to stop any hate group is by changing the minds of the people they try to recruit. The people that are uncertain about their beliefs. A moderate priest or Cleric has to counsel that person. Draw them into their Church or Mosque before that person turns to the radicals. Once they are under the influence of a fanatic it’s very difficult to ever draw them back to a more moderate view.
The ultimage answer to radical Islam is through words. Shut off the new recruits and these organizations will whither away. Unfortunately the radical side is so large and well armed that it will take military action to defeat them. But, reaching out to their potential recruits is the most important and critical step.
No, the scale of of outrage over what ISIS is doing is still way, way, way, way out of proportion. How can you compare mass executions of Shia and bulldozing of Mosques and holy shrines to a silly carton or stupid youtube video?
Go back and see the videos reporting documenting the shit storm that erupted over something so trivial and then compare it to the recent news. Yes, I’m encouraged that finally the moderates are beginning to speak up. But it’s still no where near the crowd response even the most trivial Western insult generates.
People in the West can argue and plead all they want. These young Muslim teens won’t listen to us. It has to come from their local Mosques and clerics. Their families play a part too. No one else can have any hope of convincing a these young men not to go radical.
So… lots of moderate Muslims protest (and fighting) ISIS acts is not good enough for you to disavow your generalization about a billion people, because the media is much, much more likely to report on the vocal extremists who do bad stuff?
I’m not generalizing a billion people. They share a common religion, they adhere to the same tenets of their faith.
The only thing I can compare it to is my own church and the Christian organizations. I certainly would hope my minister and my congregation would denounce and censor a radical Christian group that opened a church in my town. The youth minister would consult with the pastor to draw in our youth and minister to them. Do everything possible to keep the cancer from spreading in our town. Would every minister have that courage and conviction? Probably not. But if the majority of local churches stood up against any radical churches that opened locally they could be contained or maybe even stopped. Direction from the larger organizations is critical too. My church is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. Note, I said affiliated. We don’t take direct orders from them. Our pastor and church elders run our church.
Thankfully Christians haven’t faced outright terrorist Christian groups. Their are some fringe groups that are way out there, but their numbers are tiny and they aren’t directly involved in bombings and killings.
Yes you are. In the OP, you said “Anything the West does to offend Muslims results in them going ape shit. Protests, stuff set on fire, fatwas that send innocent people into hiding.” That’s generalizing about Muslims – you’re saying that Muslims (e.g. the billion-or-so humans who adhere to the religion called Islam) go “ape shit”, set stuff on fire, issue fatwas that send innocents into hiding, etc.
Just like “anything white people do to offend black people results in them going ape shit” would be generalizing about black people, or “anything gentiles do to offend Jews results in them going ape shit” would be generalizing about Jews.
I had to use the daily mail because the UK Times is behind a pay wall. I didn’t want to waste time searching all the international papers for this story. The daily mail provided the link to their source, The Times. I did include a link to the India Times which isn’t behind a pay wall.
I am so sick of the double standard. Calling the West the Great Satan. We’re under constant threat of terrorist acts at any time. Give me a break. The West is not the great Satan. We put our own soldiers lives at risk just to protect shrines and Mosques.
