I knew it was too good to be true: my history teacher and hypocrisy.

The BBQ Pit
1

I am currently going to school after taking ten years off. The last time I went I wasn’t into it, I was lazy, and all sorts of reasons. However, I have one memory seared into my brain, and that was my history teacher telling the class about the “baby killers and murderers of Vietnam”. That was perhaps the only time I bothered to open my eyes that whole semester, and I was really pissed off, so much so that I told him that he was lucky that he said that to a bunch of naive students and not to my uncle or any other Vietnam veterans, because I know for a fact that my uncle would have hurt him very badly. That was then.

Well, through the luck of the draw, guess who I get for my history teacher ten years later? That’s right, our aforementioned jackass history teacher. So I go into my first class, wary of anything that this teacher might say. To my surprise, I find him to be a teacher of the MythBusters persuasion, and I’m delighted in the cynicism that he is displaying. I figure that he must have gotten over his hard-on for all things military. Then he opened his mouth today:

“The military issues cards to their members that give them the responses that they are supposed to give to reporters, because they are not allowed to say that they joined up for any other reason but love of country or being part of the team.”

Immediately after my jaw hit the floor following this grand pronouncement I managed to gather myself back up and call bullshit. Literally. Right in the middle of class I said “Bullshit!”. I said “They do?” without a hint of irony since I show up in his classroom at least once a week in uniform (I am, after all, back on active duty for the next 8 months). He says yes. Then a retired Lieutenant Colonel in my class jumps in and calls bullshit, but my professor stands his ground.

It seems like such a small thing, but grandiose pronouncements that are a) absolutely false in my experience, b) promote the continuing myth of ignorance amongst military members, and c) allege that we are so under the thumb that we are not allowed to answer simple questions with obvious answers that would violate some alleged party line, is in direct conflict with his whole MythBusters schtick. How can you decry history books as false if you’re perpetuating bullshit all by yourself?

I knew this would happen. I just knew that he wouldn’t be able to bite his tongue and stick to facts, and I knew that I would take the bait. Shame on him for his lying, and shame on me for thinking that he had changed.

Well, there’s only one thing to do: suck it up, get through the class, take the credits and run. For a place that attempts to dispel ignorance, there sure is a lot of it here. With any luck this guy isn’t representative of the university as a whole, but if I’ve learned anything in my life it’s that no matter how stupid it may seem there’s someone who will teach it, so I am steeling myself for more to come.

2

Your experience is typical of higher education. That’s what you get when you are taught by people who have never had a real job and have no perspective whatsoever. Academia is almost entirely removed from reality, and its collective head is shoved almost entirely up its collective ass.

All I know was that getting the hell out of college was the best decision I ever made, and I learned orders of magnitude more about my field of study (computer science) on the job than I ever did in school. I’m finishing my degree after a few years off now and I still run into the same old dumb shit.

3

I am not in the military, but I do watch the news…what about the embedded reporters in Iraq? Why on Earth would the services allow embedded reporters in the ranks if they expected all the personnel to behave like good little automatons? This alone would seem to fly in the face of this teacher’s “factoid.” I have never in my life been in the midst of a large group and not run into at least one person who was willing to say anything at any time for any reason, regardless of how appropriate it might be.

BTW, did he offer any sort of citation as to the source of this factoid after two class members questioned whether it was true? Surely this sort of thing would be a checkable “fact,” or is he offering this as some sort of evidence of general government/military big-scary-controlling-behemoth theory?

Not that I see the world through red white and blue glasses, but sheesh, people ought to at least give a LITTLE thought to what the purport to be true. I’m with you Airman. What a twit.

4

Obviously he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about, but there are rules for what you can say to the press (or at least there were in the Army, which was the branch I served in). I actually worked at the Public Affairs Office when I was stationed at Fort Riley, and everything released to the press was rehearsed and followed certain regulations. You, as a service member, were not as free to speak your mind as a civilian would have been, and not just because of security issues - saying anything negative about the military to the press was insubordination and punishable under the UCMJ. And I personally had to proofread press releases and articles that were outright lies, never mind mere spin.

Of course, that’s a far cry from being issued cards with stock responses, and the guy’s uninformed and definitely sounds like he has an agenda. But the underlying idea of how the military relates to the press isn’t entirely baseless.

5

Oh, I agree that it’s not baseless. I have orders not to speak to reporters and to refer them to my PAO, but nonetheless it can be stated that only a fool would believe that John Q. Airman, frsh from the ghettos of Detroit, joined up solely for love of country. That I have grown to love my job does not mean that the education enticement (which I am currently using) and the bonus wasn’t a factor in my decision. It has become a secondary consideration for me, but it remains a primary one for countless others.

It’s bullshit because it implies that we are unthinking automatons that can’t be trusted to give the right answer, as if any answer to that question could ever be wrong. If someone said “I joined up to kill me some Ay-rabs”, it would be a very controversial statement (to say the least) but it wouldn’t be wrong. As it is most people have enough common sense to know what the limits are when talking to a reporter about any topic.

Is it negative to say that you joined up for a better life, or for the benefits? Of course not. Is it negative to say that the military sucks? In some cases, not at all. It’s only negative when you malign the leadership, and even then it’s acceptable under certain circumstances. Just as you wouldn’t hammer your boss in the civilian world, you wouldn’t do it in unform either.

6

Whoa. Glad all I ran into in that department was a professor obsessed with the Mongols. Think of it this way- every department has its share of people who can’t be bothered to change ideas. Also, if his ideas about the military bother you, I’d avoid about three quarters of the English department for the sake of your own sanity.

7

Airman Doors,

You were right to challenge the professor’s statement. In fact, if he’s a good professor, he should welcome it. But rather than throw your hands up in disgust, might it be prudent to actually try to find out why he believes it? Maybe you could approach him in such a manner (non-confrontational) to find out what has led him to such a belief. He might be willing to discuss it with you (outside of class, of course) in more detail. At the very least, you might learn why his views are so distorted.

And I say this as someone who was formerly in the military (Air Force - 5 years) and currrently in academia. Just a suggestion - in any event, I empathize with you in having to deal with rigid/obstinate professors.

8

This statement is just as offensive and ignorant as the one that Airman Doors’s professor made. The many academics I count among my family and friends understand and respect the difference between fact and opinion.

What you encountered isn’t normal or acceptable. If I were you, I know I’d be writing a letter to the department chair and talking to the university ombudsperson about what else could be done about the situation.

9

Question Airman: did you tell the instructor and your class what you just explained to us? If you did and he ignored you, then fair enough. However if you didn’t, then you have a little responsibility on the spreading the ignorance side yourself. Saying Bullshit, isn’t the answer. Explaining why and when is, especially in college.

Some professors are dicks and you learn to keep your mouth shut and do your time; others are opinioned, BUT are willing to listen to the opinion of someone who adds a real world dynamic to the class.

10

Hah, no wonder Airman’s posts are well-constructed and grammatical - he’s copying all his stuff off cards. :stuck_out_tongue:
If the prof is taking significant time away from his subject matter with uninformed rants, or grading students down for disagreeing, that’s the time to complain to higher authorities. Surely the guy can be permitted the occasional controversial and/or dumb opinion.

11

Wow. I’m jealous. They never gave me any “talking to reporters cheatsheet”. Grumble grumble. We were given some verbal advice/instruction. The gist of it was as follows.

Some things may be classified or sensitive. You may not know what is or isn’t - don’t take a chance.
The reporter (or spy or busybody) may already know some things and might get some useful snippet from you, that you think is totally mundane and harmless - his last piece of the puzzle.
Or, they may deliberately take it out of context and raise holy hell with it for their own purposes.
If you try to make stuff up, then you have to keep track of it.
Therefore, the easiest and safest thing to do is to play dumb. Say “I don’t know”.

In short, we were not forbidden to talk, but strongly encouraged to not actually say anything “they” may find useful.

12

The retired LTC and myself attempted to call him out, and he said “Well, it’s obvius that you haven’t been in the military for a while”. It’s too bad I wasn’t wearing my uniform today, that would have been perfect. Anyway, I got my objection on record, complete with shocked looks on the faces of my classmates (can you imagine kids fresh out of high school doing that?), so I think it’s safe to say that on this day nobody was buying.

The scary thing is that in the future he’ll say it again, and there won’t always be someone to call him out.

13

Well, I am not a psychologist by any means, but it just seems pretty sensible that jumping up in class and saying “bullshit” to a teacher isn’t the best way to get the teacher to accede a point. Quite the opposite will no likely occur, in fact it is unlikely that any teacher’s defenses wouldn’t go up. Perhaps you could try not being such a fucking asshole to your teachers and automatically assuming that people in acedemia are stuck up clueless people that don’t know what they are talking about.

Seems to me that you have an issue with your instructors. Strange, because I am pretty much in your shoes too- I too am going back to school after nearly 10 years. Yet I don’t seem to have the obvious issues with acedemic authority. Strange from a person in the military. Perhaps it is all that there book learning you so despise.

14

Agreed. Like I said, the professor was talking out his ass. I think, to tell you the truth, that working at the PAO made me very cynical about the way the military works to present itself, and I hope I didn’t sound too bitter.

On a somewhat tangential note: what is it with history professors? Every single one I’ve ever had has been a stereotypical hippie (a couple even had ponytails, 20+ years out of date). I’m politically pretty firmly on the left, but it always bugged me that the history teachers I had seemed to be teaching from their own ideological perspectives.

15

The Canadian Forces have similar restrictions. We’re specifically prohibited to talk to reporters “off the record”, to say “no comment” (you’re suposed to direct the reporter to a press liason officer if you can’t comment), to confiscate recording equipment, etc. There are no set answers to give to the press, though. We have a booklet on the subject. If I can get one before the thread dies, I’ll post some relevent facts.

I’m glad you called him on it. I doubt it’ll make much difference, though.

16

The proper response was, of course ‘I was in the military more recently than you, pencil-neck!’ Then you tie the bandana around your forehead, and blow him up with an explosive arrow.

Totally sweet.

No, more seriously, I had a similar situation in one of my CS classes. One of my teachers - a Master’s Degree type that taught a lot of the classes in our CS department, made the bold statement one day that Windows, unlike Unix, couldn’t multitask.

It took a few seconds for the statement to sink into my head, as images of my internet browser, mp3 player, and ICQ chat program, all working simultaneously, were conjured.

I believe I rolled my eyes and made a dismissive snort. I’m not the most tactful person in the world. she noticed, and asked me if I wanted to say something, so I pointed out that indeed, Windows could multitask just fine, thank you.

17

Well, I posted this because I thought I remembered several posts in which you had badmouthed your teachers and talked bad about younger students. Now I can only find your pit thread about the latter, so I guess my vitrol was uncalled for. I do remember somebody else in the military bitching about how clueless and stupid his teachers were, and I thought it was you. Well, if not I appologize. If it was you though, I retract my appology.

18

Well, it wasn’t unless you changed your tune:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5721466#post5721466

I apologize Airman Doors, I must have confused you with someobdy else, though for the life of me I cannot recall. Anyhow, It is obvious this isolated case was something you were just sensitive to, and I agree that the teacher was wrong for giving false information, and even more so for not listening to your experience in the matter. Thankfully not all teachers are like this, though most teachers might get defensive if a student said bullshit to them instead of raising a hand and saying that the information is wrong.

19

Did I say that? I don’t remember saying that. Indeed, if they didn’t know what they were talking about in their fields of expertise they wouldn’t be allowed to be teachers. It’s when they leave those fields and start to conjecture into other matters that they aren’t experts in that they run into hot water. Same as here. If I say something wrong I expect to be corrected, as UncleBill and others have done numerous times recently. I have enough sense to take it with good grace and learn something from it, rather than just shrugging it off and saving my bullshit for the next opportunity. Do you know what the difference between an error and a lie is? An error is a mistake that can be corrected. A lie is a mistake that was corrected, but is told incorrectly anyway. This may have been an error on his behalf. If he tells it again it’s a lie.

Book learning is fine. Demonstrate to me that everything you read is correct and I’ll never disparage book learning again. Good luck with that, by the way. As far as being in the military goes, I have no problem with authority. These people are highly trained, they have earned their ranks through merit, and in their fields they can be considered authorities. You don’t think I haven’t called out my superiors before? I’ve done that numerous times. I give my professors the same respect I give my superiors until they go off the reservation, and then they’re fair game.

20

Well, I can’t let this one pass…

I hardly think that Airman Doors’ experience is typical of higher education. Does it happen? Sure it does. Does it happen on such a wide scale and scope as you suggest? I seriously doubt it, but I honestly don’t know - and neither do you (unless, of course, you can provide me citations/data that back up your claim or provide a compelling argument that could convince me otheriwise).

And may I ask just what a “real job” is? I assume you think that someone who teaches at the college level doesn’t have a real job, else you wouldn’t have made this ridiculous claim. I’d think you might get a bit irked if someone made a sweeping generalization about those involved in comuter science aren’t doing “real work” or aren’t part of “reality”. I know this is the Pit, but come on…

Teaching/doing research at academia is just as much a real job as any other. It’s just that the “product” that’s being produced and/or the “service” that’s being rendered is different from other jobs. And while I’ll concede to a degree that academia is somewhat removed from “reality” (whatever THAT means), you need to examine it more in context. What I mean is that the goals/mission of academia are different than other institutions. A college/university is (theoretically) supposed to be a space within society where on can do research/write papers/be reflective/etc about phenonenon/issues that occur within that society (or the world at large). That that “space” is often isolated from the rest of society is both a blessing and curse.

A blessing in that those within it aren’t constrained in having to deal with everyday or mundane concerns - it allows for the (again theoretically) production/advancement/distribution of knowledge. A curse in that it often does isolate those within it from other “spaces” that could benefit from the fruits of its’ labors. Ideally, the space of academia should not be so isolated that it cuts itself off from the very society/world it seeks to understand in greater detail.