What if you’re flying to meet a chick? Will airports have Rent-a-Junk?
This is, at long last, a sensible and sensibly-worded objection. All I hear out of anyone --pundits, congressmen, people I work with, assholes on the radio, assholes on this board-- is that they’re being groped and raped at the goddamn airport. Nobody is raped at the airport. If the assertion is that this is an unnecessary invasion of privacy, and is all “security theatre” (I think that’s the term we’ve all agreed on), that is one thing, and I actually agree. None of this bullshit is making anybody safer. The hysterics about being forced to give the TSA agent a blow job are ridiculous and even more irritating than the pat downs themselves.
Twenty two years ago a bomb was smuggled on to a Pam Am jet. It exploded mid air above the Scottish town of Lockerbie, killing all 259 people in the air and 11 on the ground.
Mass murder using planes is nothing new. Hijacking a plane and flying into building wasn’t unthinkable, in fact Tom Clancy wrote about just such a terrorist act in 1994.
You’ve bought the government propaganda hook, line and sinker.
Fool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idICUSiGcqo The scanners don’t pick up liquids, plastics and powders. They don’t work well. The days of bombs with wires and batteries is long gone.
Diamond and coke smugglers pack goodies in rubbers and stash them in a safe place. When you have to spread your cheeks in order to fly, then you may be safe. Are you ready for that? They would have to hire proctologists to do the scanning.
You mean like this?
http://www.leftcoastrebel.com/2010/11/caption-contest-for-tsadenver.html
Yeah because the stories of having to give TSA agents blowjobs is what we’re all talking about. Idiot. :rolleyes:
BTW did you hear about the guy who got gang-raped by 20 TSA agents for 5 hours right out in plain view of everyone. I mean they didn’t even take him to a private room. Man just hearing that story makes me more angry than having to give TSA agents blowjobs just to get on a plane.
I think a lot of people want to know where it stops. Now it’s a scanner with a blurry, incomplete image of the human body. Are we a software upgrade away from a photographic nude quality image? Will that progress to a full-body x-ray? Will the groping and poking going on today lead to cavity searches next year? Is there a limit?
I have a question. Does everyone have to submit to the scanners/patdowns or do they just select passengers at random?
I’m going to the airport for solely for the pat-down. My junk’s not going to pat itself!
Hey jackass, I’m talking about the wildly over-blown exaggerations of the pat downs, as if they were akin to being raped before flying. No one said you were talking about actual rape. How hard was that to figure out? For fuck’s sake.
No, you don’t have to fly. Really, there’s nothing difficult about this concept. If flying is honestly your only method of reaching your destination, then your choice is to not go.
Selection for the AIT scanners is random. Patdowns are only performed when someone opts out of the AIT scanning, or sets off the machine.
Quite likely, you’ll be free to leave. There exists the chance, though, that you may be subject to a civil penalty of up to $11,000. What method the TSA uses to determine which road you go down isn’t known, but I’d guess it has a lot to do with attitude. I’m not aware of any instance in which the TSA has actually pursued the civil penalty.
A good reason for the public to educate themselves about their options before purchasing a ticket or going to the airport.
No, No, No, NO!
9/11 did not happen because the airlines were in charge, it did not happen because the machines were not working, or the pay scale of the fucking security staff.
The weapons used to hijack the planes on 9/11 - and this may come as shock to some people - were perfectly fucking LEGAL! They used boxcutters and small knives, allowed under the rules as they were then. Nothing, nada, zilch, zero, zip, that is done now or was done then at airport security would have stopped those guys - because they looked for and exploited gaps within the system and used something legal to do something perfectly illegal. Sure, their actions prior to arriving at the airport may have been suspicious, conspiratorial, or otherwise criminal, but that was not covered by airport security. The current system of groping or irradiating is going to find noting, because the terrorists, like it or not, are not generally fucking morons. Or at least the ones who plan these things, the guys who they get to carry them out are more than a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
This is about as valid as saying “you can always quit your job if you don’t like it,” and in many cases they actually mean the same thing. If your livelihood is dependent on being on the other side of the world, or even just the country, by the next day, yes, you have no choice but to fly or else lose your job/business. Flying is a matter of convenience for a lot of people, true, but there is absolutely no mode of transportation that lets you travel vast distances so quickly, and in many cases it’s necessary, not just convenient.
I too am comforted by the idea that a strange man in a blue shirt looking at or touching my balls makes the rest of you safer. My balls are that important.
By now there’s no secret that there’s a pat down. Anyone who pretends that they didn’t know about it is as willfully ignorant as they would be if they went to a doctor’s office and didn’t expect to be felt up. Like it or not, the procedures for flying now include more invasive pat downs. You are free to not fly as a condition of not being patted down
And some people have to see the doctor. Surely you’re not comparing a mode of transportation to health? Which is the greater right, the freedom to fly or go to the doctor’s for your health?
As I understand it, that happened once. I don’t know the circumstances surrounding it but it seems like you’re blaming the whole TSA for one overly aggressive TSA agent. I would agree with you if you can cite where in the TSA’s guidelines that refusing to be searched and leaving is a condition of arrest. That is an overreach that I do not agree with
Funny, I was going to do the same thing! Next time I fly I’ll ask the TSA agent if I can moan and grind my hips while he pats me down
The other difference you’re not aware of is that the TSA agent is responsible for the lives of everyone on that plane. If a doctor misses a diagnosis, you’re the only one that’s going to be harmed. If a TSA agent misses a bomb in someone’s underwear and that whole plane goes down, everyone on that plane suffers.
I want to engage in good-faith debate, I hope you are too. So I’ll say that I think that perhaps we have too much privacy as flyers so an erosion of it when we go through a security screening is a good thing. Simply saying “erosion of privacy” isn’t a bad thing if we have too much privacy in the first place. Frankly, the ease in which someone can sneak weapons onto a plane frightens me more than some guy rubbing his hands up my leg. If you want a debate, I submit that the silly premise that TSA doesn’t make us more secure is less of an issue than without it, we’d certainly be less secure. I’ve also heard people say they’ve never prevented a terrorist attack. Well, I’ve never heard of someone suffering emotional sexual trauma from a security screening by the TSA either.
That goes to the reason why I think people are making too big of a deal about this. This isn’t as bad as a molestation, and this isn’t as bad as stripping at a doctor’s office for a medical exam, so because of that we do not need onerous legal precedent or sterile conditions. It’s not that bad, so there should not be as much regulation. It’s somebody running their hands up and down your body to look for odd bumps in clothing or hard objects like weapons. Anyone can be taught how to do that. You do not need as much guidelines to do that compared to a doctor who is performing a medical examination.
Again, like I said to Chessic Sense, I think people calling it molestation is out of line. I did not say everyone should enjoy it and think about Megan Fox like I do. I fully understand that some people have issues with it, perhaps stemming from personal trauma, and I am not trying to make light of that. But what the TSA is doing is not sexual assault.
I feel bad for those who suffer trauma and have to endure this, but they do not have to fly. They also don’t have to go to the doctor’s, or give out their credit information to their bank, or tell their employer their past work history or SSN. They are free to opt out (and I don’t mean when they are in line, that’s a whole different issue apparently). They know this is coming, so either they submit to it or take themselves out of the situation
Would you have them do nothing? What is your plan to prevent, like you said, the smuggling of liquid explosives and small arms onto a plane? And if it’s missed, like in the case of the Shoe Bomber and the Underwear Bomber, do we not adjust or just them keep trying?
If I am guilty of something then it is not having a creative enough imagination to stop these attacks. What would you do to prevent these things?
It just shows if you do it a step at a time, how many rights can be taken away and the people will accept it. I see it as a right to have the police and government to leave me alone if I am not doing anything wrong. That is over. The assumption is that I am a terrorist and I have to prove I am not. It does piss me off.
When someone says, i have no problem with getting groped and patted down, they presume to speak for everyone. People who were abused or women who were raped may find the treatment far more invasive and traumatic. Perhaps they should just quit flying, because you are OK with it. I know people who hate to be touched and people with OCD. Can you imagine how much fun it will be for them? They don’t want to shake hands because they are afraid of germs and now they have to submit to a groping from a poorly trained rent a cop.
Tell that to the cancer patient who ended up flying soaked in his own urine because a clueless TSA agent fucked around with his urostomy bag.
Not everyone is whole and healthy. The sick, disabled, and elderly are often the ones getting the most attention and ending up being publicly humiliated because of prosthetics and medical devices. Many of them already have an uncomfortable and humiliating existence and don’t need people with no medical training asking humiliating questions in public and handling their medical equipment in ways that could result in accidents or damage to their health.
In addition to this, the most simple of security procedures, i.e. securing the flight deck against intrusion while the aircraft is in flight, would have prevented the vast majority of deaths in the 11 September attacks, something that was suggested over and over to the FAA by anti-terrorism experts, various law enforcement agencies, and the occasional action-thriller author. The FAA repeatedly discounted these suggestions based upon the supposed prohibitive cost of installing a locking door between the flight deck and the main cabin.
Now, no action, however expensive, intrusive, or utterly ineffectual, is too much to ensure our safety. This kind of spastic, kneejerk response is typical of politicians and government functionaries, but the public, minus a few people who “don’t care if they grab my junk” are righteously and justifiably outraged at a policy that does nothing to functionally improve security.
Stranger
I have to halfway throw in with the OP. I don’t like the new TSA scanners/patdowns/whatever, but I also think that the response to them has been extremely fucking irritating.
These kinds of encroachments on our civil liberties and such have been creeping and crawling in since 9/11. There’s a certain subset of the population–of which I am a part–that has been wailing and gnashing our teeth about them. This hasn’t really gone over very well, in that most people didn’t seem to care. Of those who did care, a large number of them were on the other side. Especially immediately post-9/11. Let me tell you–it wasn’t fun.
So now, nearly ten years later, people are just now getting incensed about this stuff. Good! Great! Except the way they’re getting incensed is by ranting on the internet, making hyperbolic and immature statements about freaking out the guards, and otherwise acting like a bunch of high school students asked to wear an ID badge instead of like a bunch of mature, concerned citizens who actually want to change things. And then, there’s this sneaking suspicion in the back of my head that the only reason people are so upset is because it personally inconveniences them. It’s not some kind of stance about how paranoia shouldn’t override civil liberties; it’s fear about been seen naked, or of being otherwise inconvenienced at the airport. It feels, in other words, as though the outrage is driven by either prudishness or self-importance, and not by, say, common sense or rationality.
I mean, after all, just playing the percentages, a large number of the people incensed about the TSA are likely the same people who were telling others to stop whining about warrantless wiretapping and other such nonsense. And now they’re acting like petulant schoolchildren who can’t understand how we got to this point and who want to throw eggs at people who are not ultimately responsible (in other words, the guards, who probably hate this as much as they do).
Honestly, it’s just frustrating, even though I recognize that more people being aware of this sort of thing is inherently good. Color me vaguely annoyed and tired of the whole mess.
Thus humanity.